True Titan Towing Capacity

MrAndy · 01-24-2006, 01:59 AM

I bought my '05 Titan last summer (4x4 King cab) with the intent of towing a decent sized travel trailer. I love the truck, but when I start calulating what I can really tow without overloading anything, I can't get anywhere near the 9300lb/930lb(hitch) ratings. I'm new to this, so hopefully someone can tell me I'm doing this wrong:

Max truck weight (GVWR) = 6522lb
Max Combined truck/trailer weight (GCWR) = 14822lb

My Titan empty curb weight = 5205lb (I had it weighed)

OK, that gives me 6522-5205 = 1317lb payload capacity, empty

Now fill the gas tank (175lbs), add driver, passenger, & toothbrushes (370lb), and the payload reserve becomes: 1317 - 175 - 370 = 772lb

So now, my max hitch load is 772lb. Lower than the 930, but still decent.

Now, assume I'm going to use a weight distributing hitch (100lb), and fill the propane tanks (60lb) - both of these add directly to the hitch weight. My hitch is reduced to 772 - 100 - 60 = 612lb.

So assuming the travel trailer hitch weight is 10-15% of the total weight, I'm looking for a travel trailer with the following specs:

Hitch weight = 612lb
total weight = 4080 - 6120 lbs

And that should be loaded with gear. That's a far cry from the the 9300lb/930lb vehicle ratings.

Am I missing something? I've already checked the Titan axle loads, and that's not an issue, nor is the GCWR. The real bottleneck is the truck's GVWR.

I wish Nissan had a 3/4 ton Titan. I couldn't bring myself to buy a truck from the big 3 (reliability).

Anyone have any suggestions? Other than buy a 3/4 ton?

Andy

MrAndy's Titan :

cwhyte · 01-24-2006, 05:17 AM

You make some good points related to towing a travel trailer. The max tow weight may be more useful for towing a boat, since the tongue weight percentage is typically lower for a boat than a travel trailer. I think 5-7% is recommended for boats. Either that, or the payload numbers from Nissan are very conservative and you can exceed them without a problem (possible insurance liability issue though). I think I have read a lot of posts of people towing 8-9K pounds without problems.

travism · 01-24-2006, 07:24 AM

In your scenario, it seems you want to be loaded with gear and still want to be able to tow 9k+ lbs on top of that? That's just not the way it works. Not everyone has a propane tank sitting on the trailer tongue, so Nissan shouldn't take that 600 lbs out of the tow rating, just as an example. Also, not having a 150 lb passenger can add another 1500 lbs that you can tow behind you, based on the GVWR calculation.

Nissan calculates their tow capacities just like all the other truck manufacturers, which is based on a basically empty truck. This is so consumers can compare apples to apples when considering tow ratings. Notice that they don't say you should be towing 9500 lbs across the country with the family, it's just the maximum that you can legally tow, if you are willing to lighten the load everywhere else as much as possible.

You've done the math and obviously understand how it all balances out. That's probably better than most people out there towing. If you want to tow more than you have calculated, then your options are to go with a bigger truck, save some weight in other areas, or take your chances with the truck you got. My suggestion on which one to choose would be dependent on how much, how far and how often you plan on towing.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 01-24-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAndy

I bought my '05 Titan last summer (4x4 King cab) with the intent of towing a decent sized travel trailer. I love the truck, but when I start calulating what I can really tow without overloading anything, I can't get anywhere near the 9300lb/930lb(hitch) ratings. I'm new to this, so hopefully someone can tell me I'm doing this wrong:

Max truck weight (GVWR) = 6522lb
Max Combined truck/trailer weight (GCWR) = 14822lb

My Titan empty curb weight = 5205lb (I had it weighed)

OK, that gives me 6522-5205 = 1317lb payload capacity, empty

Now fill the gas tank (175lbs), add driver, passenger, & toothbrushes (370lb), and the payload reserve becomes: 1317 - 175 - 370 = 772lb

So now, my max hitch load is 772lb. Lower than the 930, but still decent.

Now, assume I'm going to use a weight distributing hitch (100lb), and fill the propane tanks (60lb) - both of these add directly to the hitch weight. My hitch is reduced to 772 - 100 - 60 = 612lb.

So assuming the travel trailer hitch weight is 10-15% of the total weight, I'm looking for a travel trailer with the following specs:

Hitch weight = 612lb
total weight = 4080 - 6120 lbs

And that should be loaded with gear. That's a far cry from the the 9300lb/930lb vehicle ratings.

Am I missing something? I've already checked the Titan axle loads, and that's not an issue, nor is the GCWR. The real bottleneck is the truck's GVWR.

I wish Nissan had a 3/4 ton Titan. I couldn't bring myself to buy a truck from the big 3 (reliability).

Anyone have any suggestions? Other than buy a 3/4 ton?

Andy

MrAndy's Titan : Attachment 20104

My suggestion? Stop being so analitical and enjoy your truck. I tow a 28' TT that, when loaded, weighs over 8600 LBS and she tows it with no trouble at all. It'll tow what they claim. The strength and power are there and Nissan built the truck to do what they claim knowing full well that people will go by published numbers. One can only guess that if Nissan posted higher GVWR/GCWR's, it somehow would be forced to up the truck to 3/4 ton status. But speaking through a LOT of towing experience with this truck, it does what they say it does.

Armada · 01-24-2006, 08:40 AM

It may not amount to much but curb weight by definition does include full fuel tank on the truck. No passengers or cargo, but does include fuel. That will change your calculations a little.

And I agree that there is a healthy margin of error in the published weight ratings. Use a weight distributing hitch, act sensibily and enjoy your truck. It's the best half-ton truck on the market for towing.

I pull an equipment trailer which with the tractor and disc weighs 8,000 lbs. And where the tractor sits on the trailer puts a lot of that weight forward of the axles on the trailer. My Armada is rated for 9100 lbs. and does have the factory air bag self-leveling system, but I tow with no problem.

I would not tow the trailer with a cabin full of people and cargo, however.

True it's not a 3/4 ton diesel (my other truck is a 7.3L Ford f-250) but it does surprisingly well. Not as good as the diesel, but not bad either.

KTMNealio · 01-24-2006, 09:17 AM

You can haul a lot more than 1300 lbs in a 1/2 ton truck.......

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 01-24-2006, 02:46 PM

Don't make the common mistake and add the trailer weight to the vehicle. GVWR is the total the truck can weigh....has nothing to do with what it can tow. So you add the tongue weight, not trailer weight.

*Mike Up* · 01-24-2006, 03:51 PM

Yep, Titan is GVWR limited. I can pull just as much with my Pathy.

Here's my thread from a while back on RV.net. BTW, PUP = Pop Up

Posted: 10/19/05 07:26pm Link | Print | Notify Moderator

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never recommended to anyone to tow a larger PUP with anything less than a midsize SUV that doesn't have a unibody.

After going to a Pathfinder, I'm thinking the best tow vehicle as far as capacities are concerned for a PUP, is a midsize SUV.

You will get better gas mileage and have more cargo capacity or at least the same with most 4X4 Crew Cab 1/2 ton trucks.

My old Titan was an average payload with some 1/2 tons less and some slightly more. My truck as loaded with a tonneau master cover, Off Road Package (lower rear end, Rancho shocks, Huge 285 70 17" tires), class 4 hitch receiver and side steps (running boards) had a payload of ~1200 lbs. Stripped was 1450 lbs. So I had about 250 lbs of options.

When I go camping, it's usually 4 of us and gear. That's roughly 600 lbs to 700 lbs. Subtract that 700 lbs and now I only had a hitch weight of 500 lbs. I really wanted to put a cap on for security and to keep the bed completely dry, which weighed 190 lbs, but it would had dropped my hitch weight rating down to a measly 310 lbs. This means with a 10% tongue weight ratio, which is highly unlikely, I could tow no more than 5000 lbs without a cap or 3100 lbs with a cap. Not much towing capacity for a truck.

My Pathfinder by comparison is fully loaded with hitch, running boards, EVERYTHING and has a payload rating near 1200 lbs. I can keep everything secure and 'dry' and equal the tow weight capacity of the Titan with no cap or I have a lot more tow weight capacity than the Titan with a cap. For people and gear hauling, an SUV is better than a 1/2 ton 4X4 Crew Cab truck and a full size SUV is a lot better for towing than a 1/2 ton 4X4 Crew Cab truck.

By comparison the Ford F150 has a lower payload, curb weight subtracted from GVWR, with options also subtracted from GVWR. Ram is also lower and neither of these trucks even has a transmission oil cooler which is standard on Nissan Trucks and SUVs. That's about another 100 lbs.

So if your going to pull a heavy PUP or Hybrid, with a lot of people and gear, a SUV will be best.

If not, and there's only 2 of you and a little gear, then a 1/2 ton truck will do.

If I were to buy another truck, I wouldn't buy a 1/2 ton because of it's limited capacities when in 4X4 and Crew Cab form. A 3/4 ton compensates by adding GVWR when 4X4 or Crew Cab options are added plus beginning Payload is twice or even more than twice that of a 1/2 ton truck.

Just passing on this information to others who may not know. GVWR is really your limiting factor when pulling a trailer, not so much your trailer weight. I didn't realize all this until after owning. I realized I really couldn't pull much regardless of the very high tow rating of the truck and stay legal and safe.

Have a good one.

*Mike Up* · 01-24-2006, 03:59 PM

Also, curb weight of a vehicle is all fluids included with a full tank of gas. However no options of any sort as to the curb weight. Campers are different as their curb is referred to as dry weight because they don't require fluids, it's a convenience and option.

BTW, my Rockwood 2005 Freedom 2290 Pop Up is about 2700 lbs loaded and has a standard PUP 14% - 15% tongue weight of ~400 lbs. Don't ever go by dry tongue/hitch weights on any type of camper, Pop Up, Travel Trailer, or Hybrid Travel Trailer. Some are light when dry but have options and water tanks ahead of the axles so when loaded you get your normal 13% to 15% tongue weight.

Also on a WDH, it transfers a lot of weight to the trailer's axle and puts back that original front axle weight that can be pulled off when the rear sags. The WDH doesn't shift a lot of weight to the front, just puts back mainly the original weight. One gentleman on RV.net has a Tundra. His Hybrid has a tongue weight of 640 lbs which did sag his suspension obviously. Using a WDH to level his truck, bought the hitch weight to 520 lbs. While the weight is still on hitch, the rear suspension only seen 520 lbs of it. With heavier weights, even a higher percentage should be shifted back to the travel trailer's axle(s). That 120 lbs was taken from his rear suspension and put onto the trailer's suspension. The trailer seen that additional 120 lbs.

Have a good one.

*TitanFan59* · 01-24-2006, 04:16 PM

Well as long as what I'm towing isn't over 11k pounds I think I'm good. Strap it to the *** young froiline and bring it.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 01-24-2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Up

Yep, Titan is GVWR limited. I can pull just as much with my Pathy.

Here's my thread from a while back on RV.net. BTW, PUP = Pop Up

Posted: 10/19/05 07:26pm Link | Print | Notify Moderator

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never recommended to anyone to tow a larger PUP with anything less than a midsize SUV that doesn't have a unibody.

After going to a Pathfinder, I'm thinking the best tow vehicle as far as capacities are concerned for a PUP, is a midsize SUV.

You will get better gas mileage and have more cargo capacity or at least the same with most 4X4 Crew Cab 1/2 ton trucks.

My old Titan was an average payload with some 1/2 tons less and some slightly more. My truck as loaded with a tonneau master cover, Off Road Package (lower rear end, Rancho shocks, Huge 285 70 17" tires), class 4 hitch receiver and side steps (running boards) had a payload of ~1200 lbs. Stripped was 1450 lbs. So I had about 250 lbs of options.

When I go camping, it's usually 4 of us and gear. That's roughly 600 lbs to 700 lbs. Subtract that 700 lbs and now I only had a hitch weight of 500 lbs. I really wanted to put a cap on for security and to keep the bed completely dry, which weighed 190 lbs, but it would had dropped my hitch weight rating down to a measly 310 lbs. This means with a 10% tongue weight ratio, which is highly unlikely, I could tow no more than 5000 lbs without a cap or 3100 lbs with a cap. Not much towing capacity for a truck.

My Pathfinder by comparison is fully loaded with hitch, running boards, EVERYTHING and has a payload rating near 1200 lbs. I can keep everything secure and 'dry' and equal the tow weight capacity of the Titan with no cap or I have a lot more tow weight capacity than the Titan with a cap. For people and gear hauling, an SUV is better than a 1/2 ton 4X4 Crew Cab truck and a full size SUV is a lot better for towing than a 1/2 ton 4X4 Crew Cab truck.

By comparison the Ford F150 has a lower payload, curb weight subtracted from GVWR, with options also subtracted from GVWR. Ram is also lower and neither of these trucks even has a transmission oil cooler which is standard on Nissan Trucks and SUVs. That's about another 100 lbs.

So if your going to pull a heavy PUP or Hybrid, with a lot of people and gear, a SUV will be best.

If not, and there's only 2 of you and a little gear, then a 1/2 ton truck will do.

If I were to buy another truck, I wouldn't buy a 1/2 ton because of it's limited capacities when in 4X4 and Crew Cab form. A 3/4 ton compensates by adding GVWR when 4X4 or Crew Cab options are added plus beginning Payload is twice or even more than twice that of a 1/2 ton truck.

Just passing on this information to others who may not know. GVWR is really your limiting factor when pulling a trailer, not so much your trailer weight. I didn't realize all this until after owning. I realized I really couldn't pull much regardless of the very high tow rating of the truck and stay legal and safe.

Have a good one.

I don't agree that the pathy will tow what the Titan will. I think far too many people are taking all these GVWR numbers far too literally. No, the Titan will drag the Pathfinder up a mountain...even with a cap to keep the cargo dry. BTW, all these trucks have tranny oil coolers built into the radiators lower portion.

*Mike Up* · 01-24-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

I don't agree that the pathy will tow what the Titan will. I think far too many people are taking all these GVWR numbers far too literally. No, the Titan will drag the Pathfinder up a mountain...even with a cap to keep the cargo dry. BTW, all these trucks have tranny oil coolers built into the radiators lower portion.

I hope your not going to be one of those idiots that's going to allow his truck to go over GVWR, brag about it, and risk his life along with my families lives that share the road. If so, hope to see you ticketed or even worse.

It's illegal for reason!! Simple, the Titan, as well as other light duty 1/2 ton trucks, have a very low GVWR for a reason. Suspension, brakes, drivetrain are not up to it. They can and will fail, risking someones life other's than the moronic driver's. Hence, the reason there is 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.

Just because the engine has the torque doesn't mean sh*t. A Z28 camaro with a 5.7L has the Hp and the torque. Doesn't mean it can pull anything over 1000 lbs safely.

I hope I'm reading you wrong.

Also, I have no confidence in the Titan to do any real work. IMO, it doesn't hold up. It's weak rear end gives out as after pulling my PUP, it gave out shortly after. Perhaps after a redesign when the drivetrain is refined and reworked, it'll be tuffer and I could have confidence. Hence the reason I got rid of my Titan, I didn't want it to leave me stranded with my camper in another state. Nissan's midsize trucks have a proven reliability history against the Titan's rather sorry one. Sorry, not trying to put down the Titan, but I had one, and I got rid of it because I don't feel it's tuff enough to pull my Pop Up.

Have a good one.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 01-24-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Up

I hope your not going to be one of those idiots that's going to allow his truck to go over GVWR, brag about it, and risk his life along with my families lives that share the road. If so, hope to see you ticketed or even worse.

It's illegal for reason!! Simple, the Titan, as well as other light duty 1/2 ton trucks, have a very low GVWR for a reason. Suspension, brakes, drivetrain are not up to it. They can and will fail, risking someones life other's than the moronic driver's. Hence, the reason there is 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.

Just because the engine has the torque doesn't mean sh*t. A Z28 camaro with a 5.7L has the Hp and the torque. Doesn't mean it can pull anything over 1000 lbs safely.

I hope I'm reading you wrong.

Also, I have no confidence in the Titan to do any real work. IMO, it doesn't hold up. It's weak rear end gives out as after pulling my PUP, it gave out shortly after. Perhaps after a redesign when the drivetrain is refined and reworked, it'll be tuffer and I could have confidence. Hence the reason I got rid of my Titan, I didn't want it to leave me stranded with my camper in another state. Nissan's midsize trucks have a proven reliability history against the Titan's rather sorry one. Sorry, not trying to put down the Titan, but I had one, and I got rid of it because I don't feel it's tuff enough to pull my Pop Up.

Have a good one.

Please don't bother responding if you can't do so with a little more maturity. If you don't like what I say, simply use your ignore option. Your OPINION doesn't make facts wrong....or my opinion wrong for that matter. The fact that you had rear end blow on your truck doesn't mean it needs to be redesigned. Those of us towing a lot larger trailers with no problems know what it can tow. In fact, you're a part of a minute number of people who've had this happen. What you were towing had nothing to do with it. You obviously had a bad rear end from the start.
Now please show us all what you claim to be "illegal". This "idiot" never suggested to tow over the recommended GVWR. What was said was that people are ADDING the trailers weight to the GVWR and that is wrong. An "idiot" is someone who believes and tells the members that a Pathfinder will tow the same load a Titan will. I'm sorry you're so uneducated on the subject or so inexperienced to speak with any sort of credibility.

*Mike Up* · 01-24-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

Please don't bother responding if you can't do so with a little more maturity. If you don't like what I say, simply use your ignore option. Your OPINION doesn't make facts wrong....or my opinion wrong for that matter. The fact that you had rear end blow on your truck doesn't mean it needs to be redesigned. Those of us towing a lot larger trailers with no problems know what it can tow. In fact, you're a part of a minute number of people who've had this happen. What you were towing had nothing to do with it. You obviously had a bad rear end from the start.
Now please show us all what you claim to be "illegal". This "idiot" never suggested to tow over the recommended GVWR. What was said was that people are ADDING the trailers weight to the GVWR and that is wrong. An "idiot" is someone who believes and tells the members that a Pathfinder will tow the same load a Titan will. I'm sorry you're so uneducated on the subject or so inexperienced to speak with any sort of credibility.

If you can't respond without being an @ss, you shouldn't even lift a finger.

Look at the numbers, the rear differential trouble is a real problem regardless if you accept it or not. There are not minute numbers but rather large numbers for the members that actually post on the forum. Also, looking at other forums, there are large numbers also. It's a problem, don't be blind.

Quote:

What was said was that people are ADDING the trailers weight to the GVWR and that is wrong.

I sure didn't see this statement in your post to me.

Quote:

I think far too many people are taking all these GVWR numbers far too literally.

You were suggesting to go over the gross vehicle weight rating and that is a true idiot, one that endangers others lives by ignorance and lack of responsibility. GVWR can't be taken to literal, it's the limit of the vehicle, simple and fact.

After your posts, you have no credibility.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 01-24-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Up

If you can't respond without being an @ss, you shouldn't even lift a finger.

Look at the numbers, the rear differential trouble is a real problem regardless if you accept it or not. There are minute numbers but rather large numbers for the members that actually post on the forum. Also, looking at other forums, there are large numbers also. It's a problem, don't be blind.

I sure didn't see this statement in your post to me.

You were suggesting to go over the gross vehicle weight rating and that is a true idiot, one that endangerous others lives by ignorance and lack of responsibility. GVWR can't be taken to literal, it's the limit of the vehicle, simple and fact.

After you few posts, you have no credibility.

Phantom "laws", no credibility whatsoever, and forgetfulness of facts posted...along with the inability to act like an adult here...oh well....lol "CLICK". Nobody here was "endagerous others". Grow up and educate yourself. I'll be using the ignore option as others have with your posts. You sir, Have a good one.