Question for you towing experts (sway)

jrfarrar · 03-29-2006, 08:07 AM

Finally got through the towing break in process. 500miles at 50mph or less. Was able to hit the speed limits finally. :-) However the trailer started to sway "slightly" at over 70mph.

I keep wanting to try changing the load on the trailer (flatbed with a Jeep TJ on it). Some have told me still too much tongue weight, others have said it's a 1/2 ton you'll need airbags or stiffer rear suspension.

It seems to ride fine 70mph or less. Occaisonaly "slight" sway with a big cross wind, but it settles itself out fine.

Personally (using my own method of madness) I seem to think that at the high speeds, since the Jeep is so high in the air above the Titan that the air pushing on the front of the Jeep is making tongue weight lighter. Seem possible?

Dark photo attached

*TitanFan59* · 03-29-2006, 08:14 AM

You Have the Jeep too far forward for sure with my experience. Get the engine as close to being over the front axle of the trailer as safely possible. I had the same problem when towing my trail rig with my old Suburban. If I pulled it up too far It could get down right scary when she started swaying in a high crosswind. I moved the rig all the way to the back of the trailer to where I would have to guess I only had about 400lbs of tonque weight becuase I could lift the tounge a bit. This settled her way down and I could run 90 without a problem if need be. Give it a try, should work for you hopefully.

kvoman · 03-29-2006, 08:46 AM

Towing at either speed, you could get a big fat ticket. I'd slow down to 55-65MPH and be safe, for your sake and others on the road also.

jrfarrar · 03-29-2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanFan59

You Have the Jeep too far forward for sure with my experience. Get the engine as close to being over the front axle of the trailer as safely possible.

Thanks. I've been inching it back slowly each trip. I'll take it back even further next time.

Buddy of mine had me pull the jeep on backwards he felt it was loaded better that way. But I've never seen anyone do that?

jrfarrar · 03-29-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvoman

Towing at either speed, you could get a big fat ticket. I'd slow down to 55-65MPH and be safe, for your sake and others on the road also.

Maybe 90, but surely not 70mph.

Plus the main reason here is that I have a problem. I "should" be able to tow faster. That just tells me I still don't have it setup right. I'd like to get everything setup as best as possible.

rodney · 03-29-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvoman

Towing at either speed, you could get a big fat ticket.....

wah wah wah....

i tow my racecar, and until i got a set of weight distributing bars/hitch, it was downright scary, even at 70mph. now, i regularly tow east of the mississippi at speeds avg 85mph now keeping up with traffic, occasionally slipping into triple digits on long straight runs. before you ***** and moan, my trailer gets serviced very frequently, and everything is in tip top shape.
the titan can handle the load easily without them, but the bars make the whole rig so much more stable, it is not even funny. before, when hitting bumps the rear end would bounce a bit, then settle down. now, the whole truck goes down, up once and that is it. i got the "trunion" style, as i think the other style (slips my mind) wears after a while, and i was buying for the long haul. also, i bought the big 1200# bars, as i never know what kind of trailer i might be buying in the future.

*edit: having the bars makes car placement not as essential, as the bars transfer weight to the nose of the tow vehicle. i spent 3 hours in a parking lot with a tape measure figuring out where to set my bars and place the car. any truck stop will also give you axle weights, to see if any of your axles is overloaded/underloaded.

rtapia · 03-29-2006, 09:16 AM

I would recommend going to a weigh station and seeing exactly how much tongue weight you have.

Jaybr · 03-29-2006, 09:51 AM

I wouldn't put it on backwards, I once loaded my J20 on the trailer backwards and only made it around the block. With all the weight behind the trailer axle it swayed at 30mph.

Another thing to check is the tire pressure, I found maxing it out when towing helps alot. The BFG Rugged Trails suck anyways with a load on them. I'm hoping my new Nitto TG with a "D" load rating improve towing.

PhatSami · 03-29-2006, 10:05 AM

JRF read this.
http://www.grmotorsports.com/news/03...ack-safely.php

You DO NOT WANT a weight distributing hitch with an open car hauler. Where your Jeep sits on the trailer determines if your trailer is balanced correctly. Those types of hitches are for travel trailers which cannot be balanced except with the weight distributing hitch. Did you measure from the bottom of the hitch to the ground like we discussed? Did you check the air pressure in your trailer's tires? How about the tires on your Titan? I've towed the Sami at 90mph on the PA Turnpike with no problems. It sits as high, if not higher than your Jeep. A sway bar setup might help out a little if you can't get things balanced out.

rodney · 03-29-2006, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhatSami

JRF read this.
http://www.grmotorsports.com/news/03...ack-safely.php

good info in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhatSami

You DO NOT WANT a weight distributing hitch with an open car hauler. Where your Jeep sits on the trailer determines if your trailer is balanced correctly. Those types of hitches are for travel trailers which cannot be balanced except with the weight distributing hitch.

umm... why can't you use weight distribution on an open trailer? sure, it may be a little overkill, but it can only help. i am in my truck towing for up to 25-30 hours, doing 1200-1400 miles a shot, and it really made a difference. it worked wonders for me, making the ride much more stable, especially at high speed.

PhatSami · 03-29-2006, 10:44 AM

I'm not saying you can't, just that it won't cure the problem.

Trailer sway is usually caused by too little tongue weight, not too much. A weight distribution hitch only distributes tongue weight over the axles of the tow vehicle. If you already have too little tongue weight, you're actually making the problem worse. They are not sway controlers, just something to help level out the ride. The following is from Reese's web page.

A weight-distributing system applies leverage for heavier loads, 350 lbs. tongue weight or higher, to distribute trailer tongue weight to all tow vehicle and trailer wheels. It offers a more level ride, greater steering and brake control and enhances towing safety. The addition of a friction sway control also dampens sway caused by traffic and crosswinds and contributes positively to tow vehicle and trailer stability.

A Reese Weight-Distributing system is composed of four major elements:
1. the hitch receiver.
2. the ball mount
3. the spring bar assembly and,
4. the sway control (see below)
These components work in unison to provide complete towing system compatibility.

Operation of a Weight-Distributing Hitch
The Reese differences are in construction materials, welding, manufacturing processes and hook-up. Adjustment is simple because of the easy-to-operate snap-up brackets that allow spring bar tension to be adjusted by changing links in the support chains. This lets you adjust for various trailer tongue weights within the spring bar weight range by applying tension on the spring bars until the car or tow vehicle is level. Rather than merely supporting the trailer tongue weight (TW), weight distributing hitches apply leverage between the towing vehicle and trailer causing the TW to be carried by all axles of the tow vehicle and trailer. When TW is distributed in this way, trailers with greater TWs can be towed resulting in a more level ride which reduces stress on the rear of the tow vehicle and provides greater steering and brake control.

See? Nothing about curing sway except when using a friction sway controler.

jrfarrar · 03-29-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhatSami

JRF read this.
http://www.grmotorsports.com/news/03...ack-safely.php

nice link!

I'll be seeing you in about a week and a half... we can chat about it then.

You'll get to see the setup too. I'm pretty sure it's a load issue. I just can't figure out which way. I've had this thing all along the trailer so far. I even have a bunch of reference marks.

Trailer tires pressures OK, Truck tire pressures at 40 psi... I'm about 2" sag in the rear of the truck with my setup now. Under 70mph, she's fine. Only over that is when it starts.

Wonder how much your sammy weighs compared to the Heep? Plus I think your trailer is a lot lighter, open center right?

PhatSami · 03-29-2006, 11:05 AM

My Sami is 2,500lbs and the trailer is 1,370lbs. It's an open deck. I'm anxious to see how it does with Jason's humongous Jeep. I always follow the 2" rule and it's worked out great so far. It even worked when towing my sisters Hyundai Elantra on the same trailer with my Ranger. How high is your ball mount without the trailer connected? I read somewhere that it should be around 16". Maybe you need a different ball mount and then try the 2" thing.

jrfarrar · 03-29-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhatSami

My Sami is 2,500lbs and the trailer is 1,370lbs. It's an open deck. I'm anxious to see how it does with Jason's humongous Jeep. I always follow the 2" rule and it's worked out great so far. It even worked when towing my sisters Hyundai Elantra on the same trailer with my Ranger. How high is your ball mount without the trailer connected? I read somewhere that it should be around 16". Maybe you need a different ball mount and then try the 2" thing.

I'm using a 6" drop. I don't remember the distance from the ground right now, but I matched it to the trailer while level. Also, you are towing a LOT less weight. My Jeep is over #3700 and my trailer at #1800. That's a #1600 difference!

Look forward to comparing our setups next weekend. I'm hoping during this trip to find the "best" location on the trailer.

kvoman · 03-29-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodney

wah wah wah....

i tow my racecar, and until i got a set of weight distributing bars/hitch, it was downright scary, even at 70mph. now, i regularly tow east of the mississippi at speeds avg 85mph now keeping up with traffic, occasionally slipping into triple digits on long straight runs. before you ***** and moan, my trailer gets serviced very frequently, and everything is in tip top shape.
the titan can handle the load easily without them, but the bars make the whole rig so much more stable, it is not even funny. before, when hitting bumps the rear end would bounce a bit, then settle down. now, the whole truck goes down, up once and that is it. i got the "trunion" style, as i think the other style (slips my mind) wears after a while, and i was buying for the long haul. also, i bought the big 1200# bars, as i never know what kind of trailer i might be buying in the future.

*edit: having the bars makes car placement not as essential, as the bars transfer weight to the nose of the tow vehicle. i spent 3 hours in a parking lot with a tape measure figuring out where to set my bars and place the car. any truck stop will also give you axle weights, to see if any of your axles is overloaded/underloaded.

I sure hope you don't live in CA and/or trailer in CA because I sure wouldn't want to be on the road the same time as you flying by in your trailer at 85 MPH or triple digit speed. Better yet, may be you should come to CA and drive like that so the CHP can ticket you and impound your rig. Why put others in jeopardy by driving that fast with your rig??? Why not reserve that speed for your race car at the race track where everyone is comfortale at the same speed and have the same training and experience as you and are willing to accept the same risk as you.