Question Regarding Torque!

fontanavolunteer · 04-07-2009, 10:12 AM

I have a 2004 Titan Crew Cab, 2wd... with tow package (at least it has the tow button and hitch, I bought it used, so does that mean it has the tow package?). Anyway, this weekend I took my new 27ft Fleetwood Quantum Trailer with the family to the mountains. It was up hill all the way and some pretty steap grades too, the RPMS never got below 4000 I believe and in some cases I had to put the truck in 3rd and 2nd gears. Question:

1.) Is this normal for the truck to have to strain this hard to pull 7500pds of trailer?
2.) Can you upgrade the Torque Converter for more pulling power?
3.) Should I be using a Trans Cooler?

Appreciate all comments, thanks.

**vipzach** · 04-07-2009, 10:16 AM

All Titans have the tow button and just because it has a hitch, doesn't mean it has the tow package.

Does it have a tranny temp gauge or the bigger mirrors? Those are pretty obvious sign of the real tow package.

**Kronos1965** · 04-07-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontanavolunteer

I have a 2004 Titan Crew Cab, 2wd... with tow package (at least it has the tow button and hitch, I bought it used, so does that mean it has the tow package?). Anyway, this weekend I took my new 27ft Fleetwood Quantum Trailer with the family to the mountains. It was up hill all the way and some pretty steap grades too, the RPMS never got below 4000 I believe and in some cases I had to put the truck in 3rd and 2nd gears. Question:

1.) Is this normal for the truck to have to strain this hard to pull 7500pds of trailer?
2.) Can you upgrade the Torque Converter for more pulling power?
3.) Should I be using a Trans Cooler?

Appreciate all comments, thanks.

If the system has the Big Tow package, it already comes with a tranny cooler.

I cannot comment on the mountain grades but the Big Tow Option comes with a lower gear ration 3.36 and changes the shift points in 1st and 2nd gears I believe-best used for starting out.

So high rpm's are normal.

fontanavolunteer · 04-07-2009, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kronos1965

If the system has the Big Tow package, it already comes with a tranny cooler.

I cannot comment on the mountain grades but the Big Tow Option comes with a lower gear ration 3.36 and changes the shift points in 1st and 2nd gears I believe-best used for starting out.

So high rpm's are normal.

Nope there is not Tranny Temp Gauge nor does it have the bigger mirrors. So would putting in an after market Torque Converter be an option? Can I take it to the dealer and have it upgraded to the BIG TOW package? Give me some options guys?

mjw357 · 04-07-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontanavolunteer

1.) Is this normal for the truck to have to strain this hard to pull 7500pds of trailer?

Yes, depending on your gear ratio (see below).

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontanavolunteer

2.) Can you upgrade the Torque Converter for more pulling power?

No, that's not what a torque converter does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontanavolunteer

3.) Should I be using a Trans Cooler?

Pretty sure your truck already has one.

You should check on your differential for one of these

to see what your gear ratio is. If it is not 1:3.357, then that is an issue. You could get different rear end gears if need be, lots of guys with big 37" tires swap for even lower gears, so gently used stock gears are out there.

fontanavolunteer · 04-07-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw357

Yes, depending on your gear ratio (see below).
No, that's not what a torque converter does.

Pretty sure your truck already has one.

You should check on your differential for one of these Attachment 77283 to see what your gear ratio is. If it is not 1:3.357, then that is an issue. You could get different rear end gears if need be, lots of guys with big 37" tires swap for even lower gears, so gently used stock gears are out there.

Nope, its just all stock stuff. Getting ready to call the dealer to see about getting replacement gears put in. Maybe I can find some through a 3rd party like 4X4PARTS or something.

desertruner09 · 04-07-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontanavolunteer

I have a 2004 Titan Crew Cab, 2wd... with tow package (at least it has the tow button and hitch, I bought it used, so does that mean it has the tow package?). Anyway, this weekend I took my new 27ft Fleetwood Quantum Trailer with the family to the mountains. It was up hill all the way and some pretty steap grades too, the RPMS never got below 4000 I believe and in some cases I had to put the truck in 3rd and 2nd gears. Question:

1.) Is this normal for the truck to have to strain this hard to pull 7500pds of trailer?
2.) Can you upgrade the Torque Converter for more pulling power?
3.) Should I be using a Trans Cooler?

Appreciate all comments, thanks.

1) With the 2.94 gears, yeah, but I wouldn't call it straining. Our engine is built to rev and makes all the torque around 3600 rpm. Plus, this helps to cool the transmission because of the higher flow rate of the fluid out of the tranny and into the coolers.

2) A new torque converter won't do anything for pulling power. The Titan is a towing machine in third gear, at least a BT geared one, can't comment on the non BT gears though.

3) All Titans come with 2, yes 2, tranny coolers from the factory. Cooling should not be a problem if you are using the correct gears and making sure the TC is locked up on hills.

As for re gearing the rear end, good luck on that. I think your only bet would be to pick up a set from ebay/ buy sell forum and have an independent shop install them. Nissan doesn't sell just the ring and pinion gear, or any part really on the differential, they only have an entirely new rear end assemblies. Plus, our rear ends are not normal Dana 44's, they are pretty beefed up and as far as I know there is only one place that will upgrade gears. I believe it is Hoopers, and its located out here in SoCal. So normal D44 ring and pinion won't work. Anyways, good luck.

bestatchess · 04-07-2009, 12:08 PM

There was a guy here named MilkyMade selling new gears from Dana awhile back. I think you may need to have something flashed with firmware by the dealer when you change gears so the speedo & shift points will be correct.

My understanding is that all Titans have a tranny cooler built into the radiator.

stump_breaker · 04-07-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontanavolunteer

I have a 2004 Titan Crew Cab, 2wd... with tow package (at least it has the tow button and hitch, I bought it used, so does that mean it has the tow package?). Anyway, this weekend I took my new 27ft Fleetwood Quantum Trailer with the family to the mountains. It was up hill all the way and some pretty steap grades too, the RPMS never got below 4000 I believe and in some cases I had to put the truck in 3rd and 2nd gears. Question:

1.) Is this normal for the truck to have to strain this hard to pull 7500pds of trailer?
2.) Can you upgrade the Torque Converter for more pulling power?
3.) Should I be using a Trans Cooler?

Appreciate all comments, thanks.

Well, the fact you were pulling 7500 lbs (empty weight?) plus passengers and cargo and going up into the mountains, IMO it should have been in 3rd anyway for torque and engine braking. 3000-4000 rpms will not hurt the engine and as other have said, gears will make all the difference in the world.
If you're going to to that very often I would install an aftermarket tranny temp gauge and make sure you have the finned diff cover. I'm not one who believes that extra capacity covers provide more cooling although if you want to spend the money, it couldn't hurt.
On my 08 with the 2.94 gears, at about 6000 lbs (18' steel floor car hauler, 1974 Jeep J-10, crap in the bed of the truck) up a pretty steep grade the truck shifted to 3rd even while in tow mode. That part is normal. On the same grade pulling a New Holland tractor, shredder and box blade on an 18' trailer (about 4500-4800 lbs) it chugged right along at 65mph without down shifting to 3rd.

My 05 Dodge downshifted to 2nd on the same grade with a 30' TT but that little 4.7 sounded like it was going to blow apart! My wife was whiteknuckling the seat hoping it would make it. Then the driveshaft exploded a few months later without a load. It didn't take me long to get rid of that hunk of junk.

Another thing that will help is go one size smaller tire than stock. It's like a gear change. On the 08 that is going from a 32" tire to a 30" tire.

To be perfectly honest though (flame suit on) I would probably look at a 3/4 ton if you are going to be doing that kind of mountain towing regularly.

mjw357 · 04-07-2009, 12:46 PM

What?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stump_breaker

To be perfectly honest though (flame suit on) I would probably look at a 3/4 ton if you are going to be doing that kind of mountain towing regularly.

We don't even know for sure what rear gears he has yet, and you are already talking new truck? The Titan has plenty of power for a 7500# trailer.

vilim12 · 04-07-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw357

What?!

We don't even know for sure what rear gears he has yet, and you are already talking new truck? The Titan has plenty of power for a 7500# trailer.

He also mentioned he thinks that trailer is 7,500 empty. With everything in it and all passengers in his truck, he would be highly overloading the non-bt limit.

stump_breaker · 04-07-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw357

What?!

We don't even know for sure what rear gears he has yet, and you are already talking new truck? The Titan has plenty of power for a 7500# trailer.

I'm quite sure the Titan has plenty of power and I didn't say run out and get a new truck. With a 27' - 7500# trailer, cargo, family and mountain grades, I would be in a 3/4 ton truck minimum. I'm not knocking the Titan but that weight and stress is pushing things especially if he still has the stock, smaller 04 brakes. Brake fade is a scary thing coming down a mountain. I would go 3/4 ton just for the safety factor.

I also said if he were going to do it regularly.

He asked for input. I gave my opinion based on experience. He can choose to do whatever he wants with it.

mjw357 · 04-07-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stump_breaker

I'm quite sure the Titan has plenty of power and I didn't say run out and get a new truck.

Hey, you put your flame suit on, had to flame you.

We don't know if this is just an occasional weekend thing, or ? I do agree with you somewhat, if you were taking extended trips across the country with all that gear, yeah it's F-350 diesel time. Just trying to figure out what he can do with what he has.

mjw357 · 04-07-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vilim12

He also mentioned he thinks that trailer is 7,500 empty. With everything in it and all passengers in his truck, he would be highly overloading the non-bt limit.

That's why we are talking about putting in BT gears.

HudsonValleyTitan · 04-12-2009, 09:35 AM

I laugh when I see others stating that people are overloaded when filling a 7500LB dry weight TT. You couldn't fill it with 2000 LBS of stuff if you wanted to! And even if you could, you'd still be within the tow equipped tow rating AND you'd be PULLING that weight, not hauling it in the bed! HUGE difference.