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I must be the only one who doesn’t like that color. I think all of those concrete looking grays all the manufacturers are using are horrible colors!

There isn’t one I’d ever consider actually buying. Haha, guess that’s why there are so many color options, different strokes I guess :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
I must be the only one who doesn’t like that color. I think all of those concrete looking grays all the manufacturers are using are horrible colors!

There isn’t one I’d ever consider actually buying. Haha, guess that’s why there are so many color options, different strokes I guess :)
How about Toyota's Cement Gray lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
Ha, can’t stand that one either! I don’t know why, they all just look like they belong in a janitors closet on a navy ship to me :)
I'm colorblind so the gray works out. I see gray, my wife doesn't like the Lunar Rock because she says it has green and blue in it .
 

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I'm colorblind so the gray works out. I see gray, my wife doesn't like the Lunar Rock because she says it has green and blue in it .
Have you tried those colorblind glasses? I spent $500 for a pair for my father, but he insisted that he didn't notice anything. Interestingly enough though, he marveled at the color of my "Some Like It Hot Red" vehicle, as he was struck with how it looked, so I think it at least helped him with reds.

NSFW

 

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those glasses seem to be pretty awesome. the videos of people trying them are pretty impressive.
 

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those glasses seem to be pretty awesome. the videos of people trying them are pretty impressive.
Yeah, but at $500 the temptation to buy the chinese knockoffs for about 10% the price is big. Some people claim that the reactions are staged. Considering that a lot of people can see the difference in their lawn (from seeing it as brown to green) seems a little impressive.

Cool fact that I was reading about being colorblind, it's actually a trait that was needed back when we were hunters/gatherers. Men that were colorblind (which is why it's more common in men) were better hunters as it was easier to detect movement without seeing the difference in colors. Women on the other hand needed to have the skill to differentiate colors when it came to picking berries, etc. It's pretty amazing how the human species has developed over the course of its existence to where we are now, needing ventilated seats and parking sensors. ;) :p
 

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ha ha ha, seats and sensors, ha ha ha.

that is really interesting about where that came from. my step dad is color blind but i never once thought about those glasses. he said he can tell colors but he doesn't know what they actually look like. he said they are just shades but that he is not like straight black/white color blind. he was able to work hydraulics in the military but not electrical (obviously) because the hoses and lines were marked with words, besides just the colored lay lines
 

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The 2022 Land Cruiser gives us a window into a/the new Tundra engine.
"Gone is the thirsty 5.7-liter V8 naturally aspirated engine, replaced by a newly developed twin-turbo 3.5-liter V6. It pumps out 409 horsepower (305 kilowatts) and 479 pound-feet (650 Newton-meters) of torque. Despite having two fewer cylinders, the pair of turbos help the V6 develop nearly 30 hp more than the V8, while torque is substantially up by almost 80 lb-ft. Thanks to forced induction, you get a lot more oomph in the low rpms as well as better fuel economy."

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The 2022 Land Cruiser gives us a window into a/the new Tundra engine.
"Gone is the thirsty 5.7-liter V8 naturally aspirated engine, replaced by a newly developed twin-turbo 3.5-liter V6. It pumps out 409 horsepower (305 kilowatts) and 479 pound-feet (650 Newton-meters) of torque. Despite having two fewer cylinders, the pair of turbos help the V6 develop nearly 30 hp more than the V8, while torque is substantially up by almost 80 lb-ft. Thanks to forced induction, you get a lot more oomph in the low rpms as well as better fuel economy."

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While FI engines are great for that SoTP experience, I find that their numbers are a bit more deceiving than NA engines. I love having a nice flat torque curve and a HP curve that's steady. FI engines tend to have more peaky curves which if you're looking at it from a raw number, a top TQ claim of 479 looks good until you see that the rest of the curve below 400. Granted, that's where you'll see the fuel savings, when the engine isn't cranking it out and being stressed. I think I'm perfectly ok with my NA V8 as it also sounds like a proper truck.
 

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And Toyotas V6 engines aren't at all known for good gas mileage
 

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While FI engines are great for that SoTP experience, I find that their numbers are a bit more deceiving than NA engines. I love having a nice flat torque curve and a HP curve that's steady. FI engines tend to have more peaky curves which if you're looking at it from a raw number, a top TQ claim of 479 looks good until you see that the rest of the curve below 400. Granted, that's where you'll see the fuel savings, when the engine isn't cranking it out and being stressed. I think I'm perfectly ok with my NA V8 as it also sounds like a proper truck.
FI engines generally have a much broader and usable torque curve than a N/A engine... that's one of the primary benefits of a turbo set up.
 

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FI engines generally have a much broader and usable torque curve than a N/A engine... that's one of the primary benefits of a turbo set up.
? I think that's actually backwards, and that's just not turbo lag, which have been slightly mitigated by newer engines, but it's still there. A naturally aspirated engine isn't going to have that spike, as the curve is going to be more gradual. Once the turbo gets into its max boost, sure the curve is going to be more flat as there is going to be a consistent boost and the pressure is modulated by the turbo bleeding off excessive PSI.

I've actually had real world experience with this as a few years ago I had a guy in an Audi RS3 (Turbo Inline-5) try to mess around. His turbo was rated at around the same HP as my 6.2 V8 (Naturally aspirated). He seemed to always have these quick bursts that would get him about a nose ahead, but after a few seconds, I always would reel him in and pull ahead by a good amount (maybe about 2 car lengths after a 1/4 mile). As the saying goes, "there's no replacement for displacement".

And, to be fair, I actually love the way a FI engine will pull you into the seat, but I also love how endless a large engine's power feels. Forced Induction also seems to be so "high tech" and a little fancy, but I'm a little old school when it comes to power. Then again, I also remember how much reliability was lost on the older turbo engines back in the day.
This video does a good job of articulating it.
 

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? I think that's actually backwards, and that's just not turbo lag, which have been slightly mitigated by newer engines, but it's still there. A naturally aspirated engine isn't going to have that spike, as the curve is going to be more gradual. Once the turbo gets into its max boost, sure the curve is going to be more flat as there is going to be a consistent boost and the pressure is modulated by the turbo bleeding off excessive PSI.

I've actually had real world experience with this as a few years ago I had a guy in an Audi RS3 (Turbo Inline-5) try to mess around. His turbo was rated at around the same HP as my 6.2 V8 (Naturally aspirated). He seemed to always have these quick bursts that would get him about a nose ahead, but after a few seconds, I always would reel him in and pull ahead by a good amount (maybe about 2 car lengths after a 1/4 mile). As the saying goes, "there's no replacement for displacement".

And, to be fair, I actually love the way a FI engine will pull you into the seat, but I also love how endless a large engine's power feels. Forced Induction also seems to be so "high tech" and a little fancy, but I'm a little old school when it comes to power. Then again, I also remember how much reliability was lost on the older turbo engines back in the day.
This video does a good job of articulating it.
Forced Induction (in the mass produced world we're talking about turbos and not superchargers) have a more of their total torque available at lower RPMs and generally have a wider available powerband. NA engines are known to be peaky, they generally reach peak HP/Torque higher in the RPM. Turbo lag is pretty much a thing of the past, especially since twin/sequential turbos have become so common. They can tune them to operate at different RPMs effectively eliminating lag...

RPM for RPM, a turbo car will pretty much always make more of it's total HP and Torque available at any RPM other than very high RPMs where an NA vehicle thrives (in lower elevation geographies). If you're looking at anything over 4k feet elevation or so, an FI engine is much more efficient (and likely more powerful).

BTW... I've had lots of real world experience owning / racing a turbo car (I4), supercharged car (V8) and naturally aspirated car (V8). :)
 

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Forced Induction (in the mass produced world we're talking about turbos and not superchargers) have a more of their total torque available at lower RPMs and generally have a wider available powerband. NA engines are known to be peaky, they generally reach peak HP/Torque higher in the RPM. Turbo lag is pretty much a thing of the past, especially since twin/sequential turbos have become so common. They can tune them to operate at different RPMs effectively eliminating lag...

RPM for RPM, a turbo car will pretty much always make more of it's total HP and Torque available at any RPM other than very high RPMs where an NA vehicle thrives (in lower elevation geographies). If you're looking at anything over 4k feet elevation or so, an FI engine is much more efficient (and likely more powerful).

BTW... I've had lots of real world experience owning / racing a turbo car (I4), supercharged car (V8) and naturally aspirated car (V8). :)
But as the video above demonstrates, and is backed up by this article, there's still going to be a bit of a delay with throttle response. And then you have to look at it from the manufacturer's perspective. They went with turbos because it's easier to get the numbers they want and when the boost is not used, the engine consumes a bit less fuel. I've actually owned 2 turbos and 1 supercharged vehicles. And as I stated, I loved feeling the torque of FI, but I prefer the smooth delivery of a NA. There are positives and negatives with both. I'm more inclined to be ok with the negatives of NA in a truck application. If I wanted something that was great in 1/8th mile, I'd say a turbo would have the advantage. I'd almost say that a FI is closer to a sprinter where NA is more like a distance/marathon runner.
 

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Ok.......
Hey if you're all about forced induction, that's fine. I just don't like it in a truck application where the engine will have to work harder and will need to be beefed up in order to deal with the extra stress. GM is actually putting a 4-cylinder in their trucks. It will be interesting to see if the public is looking for a full sized 4t. I'm thinking they may sell initially for the novelty, but when they realize the limitations of a small FI in such a large vehicle, that appeal may go away sooner rather than later. I just hope you're not hung up with FI because you're a Ford guy, which are starting to sound like apple guys more and more each day......
 

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Hey if you're all about forced induction, that's fine. I just don't like it in a truck application where the engine will have to work harder and will need to be beefed up in order to deal with the extra stress. GM is actually putting a 4-cylinder in their trucks. It will be interesting to see if the public is looking for a full sized 4t. I'm thinking they may sell initially for the novelty, but when they realize the limitations of a small FI in such a large vehicle, that appeal may go away sooner rather than later. I just hope you're not hung up with FI because you're a Ford guy, which are starting to sound like apple guys more and more each day......
You've strangely changed the course of this conversation so much... :) I was just commenting on the power delivery of a turbo vehicle vs. a naturally aspirated vehicle.

Anywho, have a great weekend.
 
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