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I actually worked on the assembly line at General Motors, saw the parts country of origin when I worked for their parts distribution plants (mostly the same country for the electrical parts) and even built components for Boeing, so your guess would be mostly incorrect.

Funny that you mentioned a Dart because I knew a guy that owned one. The guy was part weeble-wobble, part Don Juan wanna-be. He treated that dart like crap, redlined the hell out of it, and just subjected it to pretty horrible abuse. He would show up to work with a large slathering of bird crap on the car that would be on the car for months. One time I told him that I was going to wash the bird crap off for him, and it must've shamed him into washing it off because the next day the crap was gone. I suspect that he couldn't get into a Toyota/Honda/etc. because of his less than stellar credit. A good indicator of how someone treats their car is how they treat their credit, so I can see why he had to get the cheaper dart, and why he treated it like crap (I can imagine if he took extra care of his Dart, how people would probably laugh at him). I'm not saying that a driver is going to play 100% into a car's fate, but I've seen too many appliance Toyotas, Hondas, etc. that were driven so gingerly that I can see how some people think that they're bulletproof. All I'm saying is how a driver drives and treats the vehicle will go a long way in how long that car lasts.
Yes. That bird crap that never gets cleaned off will wreck the life of the car. What kind of silly analogy is this?:rolleyes:

I think dubyam is correct. You don't have a clue.
 

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Like I said, I see Toyota drivers driving their cars like old grandmas. If you drive most cars like that, you'll get decent mileage out of anything. The outliers are cars that are just outright horribly engineered, and those can be found across ALL manufacturers. And, if you need that research, here's a 2020 Toyota Supra, 2020 Toyota Supra Reliability - Consumer Reports it has SEVEN recalls. Of course, it's not the run of the mill Toyota, and begs to be driven fast.
Yes. They drive them like old grandmas. :rolleyes: As an owner of 4 previous Toyotas and currently an owner of 2016 4runner I can vouch for their reliabilty. It's not perception. It's reality.


 

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Yes. That bird crap that never gets cleaned off will wreck the life of the car. What kind of silly analogy is this?:rolleyes:

I think dubyam is correct. You don't have a clue.
It's called caring for your vehicle. It's like seeing a person with an unhealthy look, there are good odds that there is something going on with that person's health. Is it really that hard to understand?

Several years ago there was a quality gap with some manufacturers, but that gap isn't as big as it was back then, as much as fanboys of certain products will insist. Hell, go to www.Nissan.com and tell me what you see. Seems like someone doesn't think too highly of this brand...
 

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The gap has narrowed somewhat between domestic and japanese import brands. But still not enough to make me ever want to buy a domestic brand. My co-workers F150 EcoBoost has been nothing but one problem after another.

Although based on my current and last Titan and the issues I've had...I might end up lumping Nissan in with Chevy, Ford and Dodge.
 

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Yes. They drive them like old grandmas. :rolleyes: As an owner of 4 previous Toyotas and currently an owner of 2016 4runner I can vouch for their reliabilty. It's not perception. It's reality.


And I am not such a fanboy that I think reliability is exclusive to Toyota or the 4runner. Also, I imagine with rock climbing and trail climbing, driving like a "granny" is preferred. So I'm not sure how posting videos of such driving is a counter-point to seeing Corollas and Camrys driving timidly on the highways. But, if you want proof that longevity isn't just a Toyota/4Runner trait....




 

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If Nissan was smart (which they are not) they would build the Pathfinder off of the Frontier platform so that they actually had an SUV that competes with the 4runner. Instead they choose to continue making a unibody soccer mom grocery getter.
Nissan already did that and it failed because the Xterra already existed at that point in time. It was redundant. The actual smart thing is to leave the current Pathfinder as-is and bring back the Xterra on the Frontier platform to point at the 4Runner, Bronco, and Wrangler. Today's buyers will recognize the Xterra as the adventure vehicle moreso than the Pathfinder - it's been nearly 30 years since the Pathfinder was actually that.

The current Pathfinder (now devoid of CVT and is now using a ZF 9 Speed Auto), is quite good at what it does and is a volume seller that Nissan needs to facilitate the rest of its lineup.
 

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Anecdotal evidence isn't valid proof.
 

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Anecdotal evidence isn't valid proof.
Which anecdotal items, the youtube videos posted by @PRJ the articles I posted, the sample data from companies like JD Power, the reports from places like Consumer Reports, the stories of "I had a 4Runner and I drove it across the world 3 times"? Isn't it essentially all anecdotal, which is my point? The only evidence for me is my experience, and I don't expect everyone to have the same experience (I think I saw a movie about someone with the same memories, Total Recall? Oblivion?). I know the 2006 Titan that I owned for all of 2 months was still running strong at 240K miles. I had a Series II 3800 V6 in a Buick that ran over 200K miles before I gave it to my sister (I think she ran it another 100K before she wrecked it). All are anecdotal. If you found a make/model that you swear up and down by, that's fine. Here's some more "anecdotal evidence" Toyota Camry HVAC Defect Class Action Will Go to Trial
 

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You guys are killing me with this reliability argument. You can build a car to "lesser" quality standards, and have it outlast a car built to "higher" quality standards if the car of higher quality is abused and not properly maintained. NO car is immune to abuse - they will all break. I really think that's all @TitanSSOul is trying to articulate. It's absolutely absurd to suggest because a car is a Toyota it cannot be compromised by abuse.

I happen to own a trouble-free 2020 Titan with 24k on the clock with real truck use towing and hauling, sometimes near max gross combined weight rating. I guess I'd better be careful because it's probably going to blow up since it's not a Toyota.

FWIW, my father had two Tundras that each required a trans rebuild before 75k miles (2007, 2014 5.7L extended cab 2WD) and all he ever towed was a 5000lb enclosed utility trailer full of PA equipment. These vehicles were not abused whatsoever and maintained by the book. What do you think happened with these?
 

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You guys are killing me with this reliability argument. You can build a car to "lesser" quality standards, and have it outlast a car built to "higher" quality standards if the car of higher quality is abused and not properly maintained. NO car is immune to abuse - they will all break. I really think that's all @TitanSSOul is trying to articulate. It's absolutely absurd to suggest because a car is a Toyota it cannot be compromised by abuse.

I happen to own a trouble-free 2020 Titan with 24k on the clock with real truck use towing and hauling, sometimes near max gross combined weight rating. I guess I'd better be careful because it's probably going to blow up since it's not a Toyota.

FWIW, my father had two Tundras that each required a trans rebuild before 75k miles (2007, 2014 5.7L extended cab 2WD) and all he ever towed was a 5000lb enclosed utility trailer full of PA equipment. These vehicles were not abused whatsoever and maintained by the book. What do you think happened with these?
I have to admit that I laughed when I saw someone trash the Fords and the TTV6, when I've seen some guys on here practically defend them to the death. I can see them being a little less reliable as they're so high strung and there are a lot more moving parts, but yes that's the point I was trying to make, no brand is going to bat 1.000.
 

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I agree with this. But they are still trying to cater to the soccer mom and grocery getter crowd and provide better gas mileage numbers. Same thing happened to the Ford Explorer.
For the record, current Explorer is body-on-frame architecture with RWD base drivetrain. Interesting turn of events.
 

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You guys are killing me with this reliability argument. You can build a car to "lesser" quality standards, and have it outlast a car built to "higher" quality standards if the car of higher quality is abused and not properly maintained. NO car is immune to abuse - they will all break. I really think that's all @TitanSSOul is trying to articulate. It's absolutely absurd to suggest because a car is a Toyota it cannot be compromised by abuse.

I happen to own a trouble-free 2020 Titan with 24k on the clock with real truck use towing and hauling, sometimes near max gross combined weight rating. I guess I'd better be careful because it's probably going to blow up since it's not a Toyota.

FWIW, my father had two Tundras that each required a trans rebuild before 75k miles (2007, 2014 5.7L extended cab 2WD) and all he ever towed was a 5000lb enclosed utility trailer full of PA equipment. These vehicles were not abused whatsoever and maintained by the book. What do you think happened with these?
That's a silly argument. Nobody intentionally abuses their vehicle.

With my normal driving habits I guarantee that my 2016 4runner will cost less to repair and maintain than if I had bought a 2016 Explorer or a 2016 Tahoe.

Relaiabuty isn't about how many miles you can stack up...its about how much a certain vehicle will cost the owner over its life span of 100k, 150k or 200k+ miles. I guarantee on average a Ford, Chevy or Dodge product will cost a person more than a Toyota or Honda product. I'd like to say Nissan as well but their reputation has been tarnished by the Titan and rash of bad CVTs in a bunch of their cars and SUVs.

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I'm speaking in average lifespan. And in averages, a higher quality vehicle will absolutely last longer (again, on average).
 

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Meanwhile my 20’ Titan will cross 30k and runs like a top.

Did have a few preventative recalls along the way…..

Taillight inspection and replacement
Tire inspection
Wire harness inspection
Trans shift update

Factoring in the value of the warranty I saved $12k to $14k compared to equivalent “Big 3” vehicle.

Couldn't factor the value of the Tundra because of their limited feature availability and poor gas mileage… And don't even start on the new redesigned Tundra.. Toyota will charge out the wazoo for that baby that “might” be reliable.

Unfortunately reliability has a price….
 

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Unreliability has a bigger price in the long run. It ends up costing you more time and money than paying a little more up front for a vehicle brand that has a known history of being reliable.

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Nope. Its still unibody. Has been since 2016.

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I misunderstood the setup for the CD6 platform that underpins that and the Aviator beginning in 2020. While it is RWD and a modular architecture, you are correct, it's still unibody.

The Explorer went unibody in 2011 though.
 

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That's a silly argument. Nobody intentionally abuses their vehicle.
While I did not at all suggest anyone intentionally abuses their vehicle, vehicles get abused, and yes, some do intentionally abuse their vehicles (yes, neglect is abuse, and being ignorant to how to properly maintain and operate a vehicle results in an end result of a vehicle being abused). It's absurd to suggest that vehicles don't get abused or neglected.

It's ok to admit you don't have a counterpoint to that. You're clearly unwilling to visit any perspective outside of your own. Cheers, bud.
 
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