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Discussion Starter #1
Dealers & their sales staff spend many hours a day studying, practicing, drilling and rehearsing the sales process. From the moment a customer walks on the lot the approaching sales person will be implementing years of study and practice, and putting a wealth of real life negotiation experience to use. Their goal is to sell a vehicle, RIGHT NOW. Let’s not get into the semantics or the reasons of why or is it fair or not and even immoral. It is what they/WE do to survive and succeed in this awesome and competitive marketplace of auto sales. In this section I would like to offer advice to all of you getting ready to face off with these super sales people. I will not always say what you want to hear, however this section could serve as a valuable resource and insight for those seeking an advantage when dealing with their local dealer. In 12 years of sales and sales management experience I have represented the dealer and consumer, on both sides at one point or another in the auto industry. I have worked in Washington State, Oregon, Iowa, and even in Mexico (that’s not New Mexico). I have seen most every scenario and situation from all sides in this business at least 1000 times. There are many like me who charge money for information on “how to” buy cars. I thought it would be entertaining and interesting to give Titan Talk Members FREE advice. We obviously offer a no games type deal through New-Nissans.com. But if you wish to play the game, I could help arm you with the type of insight that should make your negotiation experience more beneficial and rewarding for you. The format to this discussion will be the following. Begin by replying to this and tell me what tactic, strategy or trick you have used or are thinking of using to get the best deal. I will as I can respond with an objective and suggestive view of if it won’t work and why, or how it could be more effective. I will on occasion give open advice if I see similar questions, and or scenarios being presented. I will tell you if it is myth or fact, like this one; “Never let the sales person know that you can or will buy it right now.” Myth or Fact??? What about the mysteries and secrets? Have them revealed, like this one; “What exactly is my sales person doing when he disappears to talk with his boss?” Give me more, and I’ll be happy to tell.
 

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i have 7 years experience in auto sales and there are a lot of tricks used
 

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I'll be buying in the next month or 6 weeks. I have the chance to use the VPP program, but I feel like I could get a better deal on a left over 04 with rebates and a motivated dealer. Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
There are several levels under the VPP program. It is my experience that yes, you should be able to do better buying from a motivated dealer. Our $500 Under minus the $1500 rebate, allows the buyer to drive off our lot at $2000 UNDER dealer invoice. In most cases this will be the better way to go for you.
 

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heres a ? for you NEW. ok my x and i bought a car 3 years ago, she is on top of the loan still and i am under(i had not as good credit) well im gonna be trading it in in the hopefully near future and i have no clue where the x is, as we partewd WAAAAYS i recently got remaried like that helps ha ha. whats gonna happen?!
 

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What is wrong with letting them know you can buy now?

What is wrong with letting the salesperson know you can buy right now??If you tell him seems like it might motivate him to "try harder".If you leave he is losing a live one,not someone who is just wasting his time.So is it myth or fact?
Also,what about the old"buy at the end of the month the sales manager has a quota to make and he want to make the quota so badly that he will take a very slim deal"??Myth or fact?I always figured that had just a tiny bit of fact to it(was mainly myth).You had to be really lucky to find a dealer who was just one car from making some quota.
Let me know on those 2 myth or facts??Thanks,Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter #9
JasonsTiller:

Because every state has different title & licensing laws you will need to ask this question at your local DMV office. Normally, when selling, trading-in and transferring title of a vehicle, it is required to have all former owners listed on the title, to sign a release of interest and a power of attorney. You may also contact your bank, the current lender of this vehicle and explain the situation. They do have the legal ability to do a skip trace in order to locate your "X" as she is an obligated payer to the lender, being the primary registered owner. Hope that if nothing else this gets you closer to resolving your situation. Good Luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Phoebisis:

1. What is wrong with letting the salesperson know you can buy right now??

New-Nissans.com- Nothing, if you really are ready and committed to do so provided that both the vehicle and money are right. Actually I advocate that a consumer do so. Salespeople and their management will be more willing to work hard to sell you a car if you are honest about this and avoid the buyer’s game, just as consumers are more willing work with us if we are honest and avoid the seller’s game. It is myth that a consumer will have a more effective negotiation position if they act disinterested. You should however make it clear that you can at some point walk away should they not be able to meet your expectations. But try to see it to a successful end for all parties, yours mostly!

2. Also, what about the old, “buy at the end of the month,” because the sales manager has a quota to make and he wants to make the quota so badly that he will take a very slim deal. Myth or fact?

New-Nissans.com- Part fact and part fib, but not necessarily a myth. Like any business dealers have goals, daily, weekly, most importantly; monthly and yearly. These goals are mostly designed to push the staff a nudge higher than they usually accomplish historically. As such it is very common to be a nudge under come close to the end of the period in which they had to accomplish their goal. The sales staff is made of people, who all have their personal goals as well, which when working on commission, their ability to accomplish their personal goals weighs heavily on their ability to accomplish their professional goals. Dealers normally will reward their staff with money for accomplishing their goals. The fib part of this, is it tends to be over used and not always sincere.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
PolarisTitan:

1. I’m kind of curious to know where they go when they speak to their managers.

New-Nissans.com- They should be going to their managers to do just that, talk. I’ve heard consumers suggest it is just for effect and part of the psychological warfare that salespeople do. I’ve heard consumers say that their salesperson and their managers are just smoking and joking, and nothing really relative to the consumer is truly being discussed. Where there are exceptions, the rule is that during negotiations, the salesperson is going to talk to their manager to convey the consumer’s current position, i.e. offer and or concern. The manager, like in any business is the only one authorized with making decisions that affect the business’ profit and loss. I have heard consumers ask, “Can’t I just speak directly to the manager?” The answer is, normally no. I as a manager when possible will speak directly with the consumer, like here. However, every employee has their role in business. The manager’s role is mostly to make decisions. And it is unrealistic to have 20 or so managers making decisions on behalf of the dealer’s interest, and that is what would be needed to have manager’s always deal directly with the consumers. This is a very complex question. My answer is only part, of what the salesperson is doing when going to talk to a manager, and why the need for this common part in the auto sales process.
 

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4-Square deal sheets...

This is probably the most aggrevating thing IMO a dealership can present to a customer. While understanding the 'concept' to show people what the bottom line is going to be in the deal, I have often found this just another part of the game that dealers play in order to increase the profit margin.

To start with, the 'original' numbers are always inflated on the dealers side (Full retail price of the vehicle, Interest rate, Down Payment (Normally seen as 1/3 down) etc) and deflated on the customers side (Trade-in value).

Then the act is to 'bump' your trade in up while bumping one of the other things on the dealer side to compensate..thereby making it look like they are doing you a favor by paying off your trade.

You will also note a lot of 'fixation' on the 'Payment' - in other words....they try to get you to think in terms of I can afford that per month without seriously looking at the numbers underneath.

My most recent experience when seeing this was when shopping for the Titan (another dealership). When I proved to them on the spot that what they were showing was not at a comparable 4.9% with my credit union but more like 9.9% they got all pissed off.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
CaliforniaTitan:

The idea behind the "4 SQUARE" also known as the write up is to clarify the customer’s proposal and formally communicate their intentions to the dealership, i.e. sales manager. In Real Estate a proposal is known as an offer, in which no offer will be considered without a formal binding contract in which states that should the seller accept the buyer’s terms and conditions of the offer, the buyer agrees to enter into a legal binding contract of purchase. In Real Estate, earnest money would be included with the offer and unconditionally rendered on the seller’s acceptance of the offer. In industry a similar practice is used, which is known as a Letter of Intent which always includes a deposit. In the auto industry, a common practice of proposal would include glue (known as earnest money in real estate or a deposit in industry). Most auto dealers have gotten away from this practice of collecting glue on an original customer proposal; however, all dealers recognize the importance of a formal proposal from the customer, with a customer signature, known as a formal commitment. The commitment states that on the dealer’s acceptance of the customer’s proposal the customer will enter into a legal binding contract of purchase.

In industry, real estate and the auto industry, all proposals are considered negotiable. It is up to both the buyer and seller to represent their best interests all the meanwhile considering the interests of the other party. It is assumed that both parties are willing participants in the process of concession and compromise, what is most often needed during negotiation to reach a successful conclusion.

As I stated before. If you choose to sit down and enter into the normal process of negotiation, don't fight the whys and how comes, do what the salespeople and dealers do; GET GOOD AT IT. Of course the salesperson is going attempt to divert the consumer's attention to the monthly payment and cash down, because in two parts this is the most effective way at reaching an agreement. First part is most consumers despite the great deal on price alone, the deal will not work if the customer can't afford the monthly obligation that will be required on the loan. The second part is, the dealer stands to profit more by focusing on the monthly payments verses the price. Remember, the goal of the dealer and salesperson is to make as much money as possible, same as any business. That is the spirit of free market enterprise in a capitalistic society! Embrace it, and find a way to enjoy it! Get good at representing your own interests as the dealer, and any business does their best to represent theirs.
 

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New - I am looking at a new Titan this week. I have read the CarBuyersTips.com pages, and am trying to use the spreadsheets. 1st question -On a Titan 4DR CC SE 2WD with an MSRP of 26800, what is the Factory ot Dealer Incentative going to be? 2nd question-I know its end of year and the particular dealer I am looking at has $5K of MSRP (basically KBB, Edmunds, NADA invoice price)- other local dealers at between $6K and $6.5K. However the other dealers don't have the same truck. Should I try to leverage the other dealers money off or stick with the $5K off MSRP? You can also respond to me at [email protected] Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I recommend that you begin price dialog with all dealers referring to “Dealer Invoice” and not MSRP. I also suggest that you obtain an actual quote from us on a particular truck listing the actual equipment. This quote should disclose actual dealer invoice and any applicable factory rebates, which currently only one is available for $1500. Our pricing on any new Nissan Titan is $500 UNDER dealer invoice and giving you the $1500 factory rebate; your total price would be $2000 UNDER dealer invoice. For an official quote visit our web site at www.new-nissans.com. If comparing our deal you will need to compare apples to apples, same equipment, same invoice amount. Any dealer not willing to speak to you in these terms, is not a dealer worth your time.
 

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nice site new nissans.com :cheers:
 

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Interesting site, but almost sounds too good to be true.

I dont understand why dealers would automaticly be willing to deal below invoice. Isnt invoice what they BOUGHT it for? Its only late 2004, do you really think I can get my dealer to LOSE money on a brand new model truck?

Or am I missing something.
I thought if I could get out for a little below MSRP id be in good shape, but reading this makes me want to dig deeper. I wonder how deep i can go.

Thanks for the info though.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Of course WE at New-Nissans.com will often beat out of our state dealers, even if we have to ship it to your door step. There is no guarantee that your local dealers are willing to sell below invoice. We can because of sure volume. There is another source of income with each deal which is called dealer hold back. It varies and is paid to the dealer separately. On a Titan it will be more or less around $800 to $1000 depending on the actual invoice amount. There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding exactly what and how much dealer holdback is, as well as why it exists and how it works. Most dealers don’t consider this as being a legitimate part of the profit, because its purpose is to cover the average “Flooring Costs,” which is the finance charge (monthly payment) charged to the dealer for merchandising it. Despite what some consumers believe the “Untitled” vehicle in the dealer’s inventory is most often still legally and technically owned by the manufacture. In order for the dealer to title it in the buyer’s name, the dealer will have 3 days or so after the date of sale (contract date) to pay the manufacture in full, the amount on the Nissan’s dealer invoice that says, “This amount due.” If the dealer is ever caught not paying this amount within the allotted time during a random monthly audit, they will be considered as being "Out of Trust." The holdback amount is usually separate from the total amount due. We at New-Nissans.com representing a volume dealer retain most of the holdback due to our average days in stock being so low, less than a month in most cases. This is the common case for volume dealers such us. Hence the ability to sell under dealer invoice!
 

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Sorry missed page 2. You said that you can ship to my door for $200 under dealer invoice and I get the $1500 rebate. This begs the question - are you going to ship the truck to me from Washington State or "buy" from local dealer? Shipping would wipe out the savings that you are giving me. If you buy from the local dealer, how would that work if I wanted to also have a trade-in?
 

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Now for second dumb question (yes this is really stupid) Is it normal practice for another Nissan dealer to honor the price quote from another dealer (especially one from Washingto state to Arkansas)?
 
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