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Paint job legal question

2887 Views 32 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  blabarre, 
blabarre
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I had my hood, pillars, and roof repainted back in February of this year due to oxidation in my clear coat. In October i noticed the paint peeling along the top of my windshield and on both pillars. I contacted the guy (everything has been documented via Facebook messenger) and he said he honored his work and would fix it. I've contacted the guy for 4 weeks and every week he puts me off. Finally I got a time where he agreed to fix it and I dropped it off with him for over a week. Well the time we agreed on was up and I went to pick it up and not one thing had been done. I asked for a refund and he would not give it to me. He said he just warranties it and will fix it. He has yet to give me a date on when this would be fixed just keeps saying asap. It is a decent drive to where his shop is and I've driven out there with my wife and child giving me a ride, to have no work done. I have asked for dates and gone out of my way to allow him to fix it. He is now blaming the problem with my truck saying it needed to be sanded down to the Eco which he wasn't aware of until he did research after the paint failed. He said it wasn't negligence on his part but he would be glad to fix it to keep his customers happy. I told him I've tried to get him to fix it but he won't,and also I didn't tell him how to sand or prep the vehicle when I brought it to him, all I did was show him the vehicle and he gave me an estimate to repair it. So I told him it was absolutely was his fault but he is still claiming it was not his fault because my truck is known for clear coat issues. I said duh thats why I brought it to you. I paid him 740 dollars for this work and I am pursing a legal letter followed by small claims court if needed. At this point I just want a refund because I feel that I will be in the same situation 6 months from now and the guy is dishonest. My questions, if I go to small claims do you think I would win, and if so would I get a refund rather than a judge letting him fix it? Also, I think at this point it's going to cost more now to undo what he's done. Should I get estimates from other body shops to fix it? Or just sue for the amount i paid him. The hood hasn't started to peel yet, but I'm betting it's not far behind. Sky Roof Daytime Cloud Ceiling
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V
If you paid $740, you got your money's worth. A proper sand/prep/paint job would have costed at least double what you paid. If you can't resolve it between you two, I would just move on and find a better place. If you don't have a written contract on what he was going to do, then you would likely be out of luck, legally. And even if you did take it to court and did win, if he don't have the money, you still won't be paid. My opinion.
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blabarre
I had received other estimates for about a 100-200 dollars more from several other body shops. In my area, we have people willing to do the work for that price. I'm not a body person, nor do I know the proper steps. All I did was show him the vehicle, and asked the issue to be fixed. I gave him the opportunity because he was a little cheaper than the others and he showed me some of his work. I can agree with you to an extent, but i shouldn't be out money because I didn't understand the paint process. I have everything documented and I have also prepared a timetable of all the events with the attached documentation.


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N
Based on my personal experience.....I suggest you be nice to the guy and let him fix his work at his own pace....no matter what was agreed.

I had a Corvette painted by my insurance company.....went to pick it up from the shop they wanted me to use(lifetime warranty).....the hood had a blister on it, which wasn't there when the car was picked up in my driveway. Photos proved that. The shop refused to admit wrongdoing but would 'honor' the insurance company's determination....(I did body work many years ago and knowing 'vettes as I do, they either used heat to accelerate the cure or they painted over some spilled material that was absorbed into the hood composite material...(a no no with composite body parts) So with a clear case of before and after and fault, my insurance company authorized me to take it to someone I knew that did excellent work...the right way....and they would pay. Three years later the blister reappeared. Opinion from PPG...it's not repairable...there's clearly a contamination wicked into the composite of the hood. No fix from anyone even with contracts, warranties, promises etc. The insurance company:"not our problem". Shop #1:"not our problem". "Shop #2: "not our problem".

The moral of the story....even with iron clad papers and promises....if someone doesn't want to do the work...they won't. Getting a lawyer will cost you more than you'll get....sort of like chasing a $20 with a $5.
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N
Hit enter too fast. If you do a small claims filing, most likely your state has a law that prevents a business that's an LLC or incorporated from representing itself without an attorney. Pro Se is only for individuals...not businesses. This means that if you were to show up without an attorney, you'd be going into a gunfight with a knife.
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blabarre
He's not a company or an llc. Also I wouldn't require an attorney or any fees. My uncle is an attorney and I've talked with him a bit about it.


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Blevinger
Court sucks, man, no matter if you're the plaintiff or defendant. Consider the monetary and personal stress needed to go to small claims court to recover $740. I've found many times in life it's just better to let things be, even if you feel you're right.
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N
In that case have your uncle look at the estimate work order and the final rcpt/release of work done that you signed. It should have a warranty clause in it....as well as businesses are required to state in their contracts that they are an LLC or Inc.....even if they are a DBA named company. In my experience, all body shops warranty all but their paint work. That's usually left to the paint manufacturer to warranty and the way the shop gets that warranty is by being a certified PPG/BASF/Valspar etc. application shop. This can get ugly...fast without the proper signed paperwork. Best of luck.
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blabarre
I unfortunately didn't sign a release order or anything like that. This guy is just an individual that paints cars that used to work for a body shop and went out on his own. I have everything documented as far as an agreed upon amount and him saying he would honor his work. I am going to at least send him a legal letter and see where it goes.


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blabarre
I wish I could tell everyone how things have unfolded with this from the start but it would take way too long. I know I sounded like the guy was reasonable in the first post but truth be told he is scum. He lies and is very dishonest. He has talked to me very disrespectful and I have been very patient with him and his excuses just keep coming left and right. Monetary isn't the only reason I'm pursuing this. I've been burnt on a flooring job in labor for over 3 grand which I did not pursue; however, I'm tired of being burned by dishonest people and I think it's time for people to stand up to them. If I have to pay a little money to pursue this I will. At least I can say I tried.


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Walrus
Yep. Mr Painter is grinding out his day to day cost of living.
He's behind the power curve here and he knows it. Your redo isn't going to help pay his bills so naturally he is stiffing you.
Put some screws to him as best you can but be prepared to just drop it for the sake of your blood pressure.
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G
Your $700+ dollars is most likely gone for good. Your paint most likely will never be properly repaired. Not saying you deserve it, because you don't...However, that is the risk you took, to save a couple of hundred dollars, when you went to an individual that used to paint at a shop, that has no business standing or reputation to uphold. If you go to small claims, the judge is not going to make him give you your money back. At best, a judgment will be entered for him to repair the work. Good luck!
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blabarre
I appreciate the honesty. I was hoping for a refund at this point. I honestly don't trust him to do a good repair to this. I don't even want him touching my truck again. When he did the initial paint job he didn't do a good job of taping and I also had several runs when I got it back.


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dkmura
Honestly, you haven't got much of a case. The lack of a written contract is the most glaring omission. Your wish for a full refund probably won't stand either. If you're going to small claims court, recognize that your options are limited to getting the work redone by this same painter.
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blabarre
dkmura said:
Honestly, you haven't got much of a case. The lack of a written contract is the most glaring omission. Your wish for a full refund probably won't stand either. If you're going to small claims court, recognize that your options are limited to getting the work redone by this same painter.
Click to expand...

I've got everything documented and I mean everything and then some. Everything was discussed on Facebook messenger and I was able to produce PDFs of all of it to bring to court. I have where we agreed on an amount and even him acknowledging the problem and saying he would stand behind his work even though I've tried 5 separate attempts to work with him on fixing it to which he has blown me off. He even had the truck for 8 days to which I have it documented where he would fix it in the 8 day time frame and not a dang thing was done. Do you know how inconvenient it is to be without your vehicle for eight days? Again, There is a lot to this story and I have tried and tried to work with this guy. He is telling me I'm being immature, that I need to quit complaining, and that its the trucks fault it's peeling and no negligence on his behalf. I have witnesses and I also had my comprehensive insurance adjuster look at it and he said they couldn't cover it because it was improper workmanship. He said it wasn't sanded correctly. I have created a legal letter, I've got all the documentation printed, and I have a time table of all the events and all the agreements. I am pretty sure I would win.


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dkmura
Do you know what a legal written contract is? You can have all the facebook crap and PDFs you want, but they are not nearly as legally binding as a written contract, signed by both parties. Keep in mind, every civil court has a strictly limited time to go through all of the evidence and can't go through a lot of heresay evidence.
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blabarre
Of course I know what a legal contract is. My Facebook documentation is only a few pages long. It's very concise and to the point. It's definitely not hearsay. I also have created a one page time table of events that references all the Facebook crap. Handshake deals are done all the time. A verbal contract or a handshake deal may be just as enforceable as a written contract. Verbal or handshake agreements are subject to the same contract principles as a written contract.


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chadp82
Another issue with small claims court, you may not be aware of, if you win you still have to figure out how to get the money. Just because you win, doesn't mean he will pay. Small claims can be a moral victory and that is it. The legal process and cost of the legal process to garnish wages or file a lien on his property may cost you more than the claim. Even if you do this it may take years, if ever, to get the money back. Being that he has his own business, the garnishing of wages may be very difficult. If you file a lien, unless he sells his property or business, you may not see it until he dies and his heirs sell the property.

If you paid via Credit Card, I would call the CC company and dispute the charges. If you paid via cash or check, you may be SOL.

Facebook and Emails may be the source of some info, but this isn't Judge Judy, it is real court. Verbal contracts hold some water, but it is still a "he said/she said" scenario. Internet messaging can be manipulated, and the judge won't log into Facebook to see who is right.

For $700 I would walk away and chalk it up to lessons learned in life. I would also post a review on Google and other online resources to try to help others in the future. If he does crappy work, eventually it will catch up and he will be out of business.
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N
The definition of experience: "It's what you get when you don't get what you want".

Most small claims courts are run by a magistrate...not a judge...who are charged with administration, not determination. It's a fine line of difference that just means they are even less inclined to make anyone a winner unless every single one of the t's are crossed, i's dotted and so forth....they really do split the baby in half and I see a lot of cases just discharged for lack of something that you would consider minor or inconsequential. The only verbal contracts that I've seen honored....ones that were witnessed by a third party present at the time of the agreement. Also, add to your list of things that don't have any value in a courtroom....text messages, unless they are pulled by a forensic team and handled as evidence.

Chad hit the nail on the head....even if you win something....you have to collect...and that usually requires a second action .... filing the judgement with the county and then sent to the sheriff for enforcement (when they can fit it in). Just because someone loses an action against them doesn't mean they will comply....it really can become a rabbit hole you end up in.

The three rules of civil lawsuits: 1 always sue for money, never to make a point. 2. make sure the target of your suit has what you want in an accessible asset. 3. have a foolproof plan to collect.
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blabarre
Man, I guess I was hoping for some support from others on this site. All the lawyers I've talked to have said they think I would win. 700 dollars is a lot of money to me for something that didn't last but for a few months. You guys must not have to worry about money! Not sure if it matters but where I live I'm dealing with the justice court vs a small claims court.


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