Wow, I would have thought all the performance guys might find that article inspiring for the FFV guys. The 5.0 FFV picked up 15HP and 10 torque just by running E-85. That's a 4% power increase and at least .1 second off the 1/4 mile..

 

I was told by my protuner I wouldn't notice a difference because our engines don't have a high enough compression. He said you notice that on high performance engines. Not sure how true that is. But I asked about doing an E85 tune.

 

The Titan is 9.8 and the F150 5.0 is 10.5, not sure if that is a big enough difference to negate any gains.

 

This is the important part of that Ford article and would also apply to FFV Titans:

Ethanol has a higher octane and heat-of-vaporization point than gasoline, meaning it combusts at a higher temperature and with greater force (higher compression) than gasoline, while also having a greater capacity to cool the fuel/air mix in the cylinder before combustion. This inherent efficiency is what enables the 5.0 to produce more power while burning E85 instead of regular unleaded fuel.


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I heard this brought up before on here, but i don't really think that its going to make that big of a difference in 1/4 mile times. That may just be a Ford marketing scheme? LOL

 

Yes, but it was always about octane rating and ignition timing. This guy throws a new fact into the equation. If the 4% power gain is true, then it would improve the Titan 1/4 mile results IF the tuning automatically compensates for the new fuel. I never did hear a definitive answer from any of the tuners about using E85 in a gasoline tuned FFV Titan. I don't think they ever thought about it or even tested it.

 

Your right, i don't think anyone has bothered to test it! I just remember someone saying how it won't add up to better track times.

 

Well i can tell you if I had a FFV i wouldnt be running 91 octane.....E85 is the great stuff....there are alotttttttttttt of people using the stuff....just not here for whatever reason.....

 

Thanks for commenting, that's why I'm bringing it up for discussion.

 

I'm finding some info from pro tuners and so far it looks like you can get a 5% power increase with no special tuning adjustments. Here are the tuners remarks about E85:

Why is Ethanol a better fuel ?
1. It has a much higher evaporative cooling power than gasoline so the intake air charge in the cylinder is significantly cooler that it is with a comparable mixture of gasoline --- that means higher VE.

2. Its octane as blended in E85 is about 100, its blending octane when added to gasoline is rated at 118, so it is a very cost effective octane booster.

3. Ethanol burns faster than gasoline but has a slightly longer ignition delay during the slow burn phase of combustion so the engine does not do as much negative work fighting rising cylinder pressures due to large ignition advances. The total ignition advance for E85 is almost identical to the ideal advance for gasoline so it does not cause the PCM problems when you mix them.

4. At proper mixture you actually are releasing more energy in the cylinder due to the higher quantity of fuel you can burn. ( Ethanol can burn effeciently at much richer mixtures than gasoline can) That means about a 5% increase in energy release all by itself.

5. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.

6. Theorethically, the gain is 5% just by switching fuel. 350 hp X 5% = 15 hp,

 

I've used it before since its cheaper but I get such garbage gas mileage that it doesn't save me any money.

But I'll definetly have my guy do a E85 map when I'm there next time. He told me to put it on stock map if I wanted to run it but my truck didn't really like it since I'm throwing O2 codes and it's just dumping fuel.

 

Definitely bad for MPG, but for all the FFV 1/4 mile guys who want a free 10-15 HP/torque increase, it's starting to look like a no brainer. I really wonder if Uprev or the handheld tuning companies ever took a look at E85 and FFV Titans.

 

I dont think many....IF..... any tuners using E85 in the titan world...just from simple fact nobody really talks about it....i know its getting big in the Z world...

 

When I get uprev im gonna have my truck tuned away from e85. From what ive heard on the forums FFV makes my truck run richer than the regular models.

 

FFV Titans have a broader self adjusting AFR range than non-FFV Titans. I don't understand your comment about tuning away from E85. This thread is about producing more HP/torque using E85 instead of gasoline in FFV Titans, and if this is possible without retuning for E85. Uprev will be able to adjust your fuel maps anywhere they want to if you are FFV or non-FFV.

 

The main benefits from using E85:

1.) effective octane rating of 106
2.) 30% more fuel needed for the same afr as standard gasoline. This means worst fuel economy BUT better combustion cooling effect, increasing torque
3.) It's usually a lot cheaper than gasoline

Those are just the main benefits off the bat. It's not guaranteed to gain you horsepower with a low compression ratio, but it will increase torque under the curve in at least a few places. It might not increase peak power but it will definitely increase low end power.

You mentioned it burning at a richer mixture above. this is the 30% value i mentioned. Generally, E85 takes 25-30% more fuel to reach stoichiometric burn (14.7:1 for gasoline: 9.76:1 for E85; but your afr meter will read 14.7:1 when the actual value is 9.76:1 while tuning it)

It does almost zero gains on a mild bolt-on civic si for us. But once you get cams i've seen cars gain 10 whp from E85.

 

I have run it in 3 different vehicles and all three showed gains at the track. I just can't stand stopping for fuel as often as it requires with E85. My 1983 Chevrolet van got about 8-10 mpg on E85 with the TPI setup for E85. My 2006 Ram was a Flex Fuel, same story with the MPG, and same with the Titan. I only have one place (Classic Clean Fuels a branch located on Classic Hummer's lot in Grapevine, TX) around me that sales it and its a pain in the butt to get to and get out of. But all three vehicles consistently ran 2-3 tenths better on E85. The TPI engine actually ran so cool with the E85 that the runners would start frosting on an 70*F day when pushed hard with a cool engine.

 

I only mentioned benefits. The fuel economy should drop about 10% on average. I know most E85's si's get about 22 mpg instead of 25 or so.

 

I don't ever see any places selling it down here.

 

Regular gas in South FL is $3.60 a gallon and E85 it's $3.45 if you do the math it's not even 7% so it makes no sense to get it because your MPG will drop by 30%. You are better of going with 93gas


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Understandable, but E85 has more performance benefits than than 93 octane gasoline. E85 is for those who want maximum performance at the track and not for full time use unless they want that edge at all times.

Where the heck is Deerslayer? I would think he would be interested in the thread since he has an FFV. We need more comments about this before I fill my tank with E85 for the first time...lol.

 

Somebody should test it out @the track!

 

The only place I've seen E85 is at a gas station off the Turnpike. I thought a few of the Titan tuners did some experimenting with race fuel and higher timing and saw no benefit...

 

I would like to try this out, I have a FFV Titan and have run it with half a tank of gas still in it. I did not notice tat much difference, however I did not retune my BDGT tuner for the higher fuel octane.
With that said I should use the highest setting on my tuner, right?

 

That's a good question. Higher octane means more timing advance in most cases, but when I logged the 87 and 93 tune BDPP, the timing peaked at 35-36 degrees on both tunes. As far as I know, the handheld programmers and Uprev have never said it was ok to run their tunes using E85. We need to know if there is a problem running their tunes on E85. Running the stock tune has to be ok using E85 because that is what the FFV is designed to do.

 

OK I just text my tuner about this. I'm going to see if he can make me an E85 map. I can't believe this is 3 pages long and I just found it!! I'm going to google E85 and see if I can get some today and mix it with my 93 I'm running just as an octane booster and go run some 0-60's and see if theres any gains I'll report back later Now I need to see how much E85 mixed to so many gallons of 93 makes the octane level.

 

I was surprised you weren't making any comments on this thread. I know you have an FFV and can possibly shave another .1-.2 off the 1/4 just by switching fuels. Can you also ask him if us handheld FFV guys can switch without any repercussions?

 

I thought a few of the Titan tuners did some experimenting with race fuel and higher timing and saw no benefit...

Yes i remember! I was there @ the track that day too! It has been experimented with before running race fuel & higher timing, but the ECU didn't like it & would retard the timing advance. No faster MPH or lower ET from it...

 

Injector Dynamics - Alcohol Article

You should all read this!!!!

 

Most of the "danger will robinson" stuff in that article doesn't apply to flex fuel vehicles.

Good read nonetheless.

 

That's a great article. Uprev posted that on FB.

 

Yup I read that yesterday, I think for now I'll stay away from e85

Swyped from my Droid Bionic

 

I was on E so I said screw it, I'm getting some E85. Put 15 gal in it. Ill run logs tomorrow night, keep ya posted.

 

You're supposed to switch gradually according to the owners manual. To me, that means mixing a 1/4 tank of E85 with a 1/4 tank of gas, and after that runs down then you can run full E85.

 

Running great so far......

 

Anxiously awaiting data logs.

 

What about mpg's

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