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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I don't want this section to be only about our great deals, advertising and boring things like that. So I thought it might be fun to start a topic about Dealers. Of course I represent one, a great one I feel as do most of our customers! Having said that, feel free to respond to this sharing your worst dealer experience story or what you hate most about dealers in general. I hope to hear some good ones, but it will be fun to hear the bad ones too. In our efforts to offer Titan Talk members and all of our customers a different experience, we want to open up free discussion of what you hate about "MOST" dealers to assist us in avoiding their mistakes. Don't hold back!
 

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I hate the fact that:
I can study up a little on trucks on the internet, and know more about the truck than the guy selling it.
 

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I'll have to say that of all the cars and trucks i have purchased over the years the dealers were very ill prepared for the titan. Most (not all ) of the Salesman didn't seem to know much and apparently didn't do the research. My guess is those who didn't won't survive in the car sales business long. Too much information available on the internet now to baffle the customer with b.s.
 

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I hate walking into a dealership after spending over $40K on a vehicle and being ignored by everyone, including the saleman who sold it to you. It is as if once they get your money, you simply aren't important anymore.
 

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I figure if I know about TSB's on my vehicle, the dealership should know about them as well when I go in to get it fixed.
 

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A customer should not be made to wait for 5-6 hours haggling over a price that the dealer knows they will sell if for. Also, dealers should not try screwing the customers on their trade ins. Where do they get this blue book value that differs from all the other blue books that the customers read. I think that if a car looses a value of 10 thousand dollars over 2 years time maybe that car wasnt worth buying in the first place. Oh, and my absolute favorite! They take your keys and "test drive" your trade in and then when you try to leave they "dont know" who has your keys. One moron goes to find them while another keeps humping your leg to buy. I love this tactic. I have plenty more good ones, but my fingers would go numb from typing if I kept on.
 

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Best way to keep from doing the 5-6 hours haggling time is to get a quote over the net. Just ask them for their best deal, then when you get there, no haggling over price, it's already settled. Going in close to closing time helps too.
 

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I think that i haveone o the best of all! It doesnt have much to do with me, but between two dealers. It started off with me trading in my 03 silverado for an 03 sentra SER Spec-v with all the mods you can think of, as well as an 02 Cop car. After about 42 days to be precise, i couldn't stand driving a car any more. I went back to the same dealer that i bought it from...i actually becamefriends with the majorityof the staf to include the owner and his son. Drove a titan for the firsttime and loved it. They said that they couldnt get me into the truck with all the negative equity that i had from and 03 silverado and the 03 sentra, for less than $550 a month X 72mos. So what they did for me was wrote up an invoice for well below what they actually were going to do it for, acted like they threw it away(wrinkled, and torn slightly), gave it to me and sent me to one of their competitors. while at the other dealer, i had the finance manager...a friend of mine from the other dealer, call me and heckle me about coming back to try and work a deal. this competitor ended up paying off my sentra and gave me the titan for less than invoice. All in all they wanted to steal business from another dealer so bad that they ended up loosing a few grand for a sale, and now i have my titan, and no negative equity.
 

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Hi Everyone,

I just joined TitanTalk. I was told about it by a salesman today when I test drove a Titan. This thread is of interest to me, because I have just started my search for the best deal that I can make. The approach that I plan to take is to tell them up front that I am going to buy a Titan this week and who I buy it from depends on who will give me the best deal. I am also going to say that in case of ties the one who made the best offer in the beginning will win. Hopefully this will get them to cut to the chase. Does this approach make sense to you?

DWC5X5, I loved your comment about them losing your keys and humping your leg.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
If you don't mind negotiations, then yes. Your approach as indicated above should work at most places. You must remember to act politely and appreciative of their position. If you act like an as-s and the dealer stands to make little or no profit then what benefit remains for them to sell you a vehicle that they otherwise have NO difficulty in selling. Our program is $500 Under Invoice, if you live at a distance where shipping is going to take the cost of your purchase above what other dealers in your area are willing to do, then you can at least use our offer as a reference to assist you in your search for the "best deal." There is no negotiation necessary to cut to the chase working through us. But if you can't work through us, or it isn't practical for you, then ask them to match us, if they can't, ask them in reference to invoice, how close can they come? Remember not to take anything personal, it's business to them, that's all. Good luck with your venture.
 

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04TitanXECC, thats dirty play. I like it! I'd rather not go through this type of negoitations, but your plan was very elaborate and creative. I can't believe it worked. Congrats on a nice truck.
 

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The Dance

new-nissansDOTcom said:
<snip>
...what you hate about "MOST" dealers to assist us in avoiding their mistakes. Don't hold back!
We bought the first Titan sold in our county, and one practice that we would change if we could is "The Dance" of sending you back and forth between the salesman and the sales manager for the final deal on the truck.

We had in hand the price of what our SE should have cost, yet we had to start some $5,000 above that. This business of local markups is insane. To tell the truth, I would have looked seriously at the LE that they had, but the $8,000 asking difference (only difference was step bars and big tow) completely killed any discussion on that point.

We also had in hand what our trade was worth; at least we got around THAT one by showing them the KBB value.

We went back and forth at least four times, getting up and heading for the door twice because I knew of an Avalanche and a GMC that I could get for a better price.

Each time, we asked, "Is this your best deal?"

Each time, we didn't believe them.

We could have avoided a lot of wasted time and hard feelings if they had just started with their best price. Today's consumer is far better informed, and not willing to be 'taken for a ride' with the expense of higher payments. Most of us are smart enough to have a budget for truck payments and know that we can't tolerate going above that more than a given amount.

I'm not sure where the "Let's screw the customer" mentality comes from, but personally, if the dealer just opened the books a bit and told me:
  • The price he pays for the truck (not likely)
  • What he has to pay to keep it on the lot (flooring costs)
  • What he has to have in profit to keep the doors open at his current level of business
Then we would have a lot easier time all around in the negotiations.

Tall order, I'm sure, but treat me like a business partner (wow, what a concept) rather than someone to be fleeced, and I'll be a lot freindlier with the sales force.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
What you must keep in mind is dealers hate to negotiate more than consumers. That's pretty bold of me to say, huh? I know many of you are scratching your heads right about now and are thinking, sure. Really, it's true! Dealers would much rather use a cash register instead of a computer to make a deal. Of course like Saturn they would charge $1500 to $2500 above invoice. Probably not a number that you are excited to pay. As long as dealers are trying to make money (the reason to go into business and what keeps them in business). Whether they are trying to make $5000, $500 or $5 dollars, someone else can always sell it for less. This is what creates the need for negotiation. Dealers like any business want to make as much money as possible, they need to sell the vehicles to make money and they need to try and ask for more money in the effort to make more. Dealers can't read the customer's mind and where there are exceptions the rule is that all customers start lower than in the end what they are willing to pay, just as all dealers start higher than in the end they are willing to go. Then there are trade-ins, where the market from one dealer to the next within a metro area should be similar, one maybe willing to pay more than the other by a few bucks and no trade-in is the exact same. What I'm getting at, is there are so many reasons that the negotiation process exsists, that I've always suggested to consumers, instead of fighting the process, get good at it. This is what the dealers try to do. Dealers should respect the fact that you are looking out for your best interest, and are trying to pay as little as possible. You should also respect their position trying to make as much as possible. I hate standing in line at the grocery store, but if I want the food in the basket, I will have to just wait in line for my turn!
 

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I guess I'll throw in my last experience. Back in June I bought a new 2004 Frontier, after about 3 months I decided it wasn't enough truck to tow my camper and gear. So I went Titan shopping. I started off with email quotes and soon received an offer of 20,000.00 for my trade (I paid $22,200) and sell the Titan at invoice. I then took that to my local dealer that I bought the Frontier from and started the haggle game. 20 minutes later they gave me $21,515 for my trade, invoice on the Titan and thru in the trailer hitch at no charge. I think I did pretty good but it makes me wonder how much they really make on new vehicles! When I picked up my truck this past monday I forgot my second set of keys for the Frontier so I brought them back down on Tuesday and I was amazed they had already sold my Frontier! Anyway, that was my story. I would call it a good one I guess.
 

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I am currently in the negotiation process for a 04 CC and it goes like this. I narrow the field of vehicles I am interested in. In this case Tundra, Titan, F150. I call the closest dealer to me for each and ask for a sales manager. Provide the details for truck I am interested in and ask if they have anything similar on the lot. If so I make an appointment to pick the vehicle up and bring it home for a few hours. I have three young boys and will not drag them and their car-seats into a dealership. I have never had a dealer refuse (including my last purchase of a mini-van). I pick the vehicle up take it home and thoroughly examine every detail at my leisure. I generally drive the vehicle to competing manufactures lots to do direct comparisons. Would like to bring all three trucks home but do not have enough other vehicles to leave with dealers. Do a highway, back-road, garage, parking lot and other tests. I load car seats and kids, do everything I can think of without a salesman standing over my shoulder. I then return the car at closing time and thank the dealer for his time. After choosing the Titan, I research every option I might want, including reading hundreds of posts on this or similar sites. I choose the options price them at both Edmunds and Consumer Reports, type up a very polite and detailed offer and send it to every dealer within 100 miles. Wait for the replies and work from there. I will give the benefit to the original dealer because of their added time and expense. I currently have 5 offers on the table from dealers in my area. Seems to work for me and I don’t have to sit in the dealership wasting mine or the dealers time.

JaredS
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This seems like a lot of work, more than most probably want to do. However if others like you are willing to work for it, I would think it could be effective. I do wonder though, if the dealer that let you take out the Titan without any real commitments from you, if they would have said that they will sell it, or the exact one you want for $2000 UNDER dealer invoice, giving you the $1500 rebate, would you have still felt it worth you time, effort and energy to continue searching for even a better deal even if in the end you only saved $100? Just curious.
 

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Since I do not buy cars that often the work load is not bad. I do not even talk price until I have picked the exact vehicle and options I want. If I was in the dealership and the first offer from a dealer was $2000 under invoice I would suspect a catch. The process has become so convoluted that I don't trust the first thing out of the dealer’s mouth. If the $2000 under was near or below what Edmunds TMW or Consumer Reports listed I would take it without further question.

JaredS
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I would present to you the Edmunds.com suggested buy price which would be for a little over invoice. The two greatest challenges in buying an automobile are finding a great deal and reconizing the great deal it is when it's presented to you. Dealers are always asked to not play any games and cut to the chase. It is interesting though how many customers still suspect a catch "some game" when the dealer does exactly what they ask for. Don't get me wrong, I understand what your feelings are predicated on, however there are a number of dealers attempting to do things differently than the historical game playing that the customers are too often subject to. The success of changing this on a wider scale, will depend on the success of those dealers who are leading the change.
 

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After test driving the Titan at some dealerships, I checked all the local dealers Internet prices for the Titan I wanted. I then negotiated entirely online via e-mail for the best price. I even negotiated trade-in online as well. I paid right at $1000 under invoice and spent maybe all of a couple hours. This is the only way to buy a car now. It removes the emotional aspect of the buy and in the end your don't feel drained by the process. I highly recommend it.
 
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