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Discussion Starter #1
Can someone tell me what the actual GVWR and GCVWR is for the Titan? I assume it's listed on either the door or in the owner's manual. I don't know if the manual breaks it down into 4x2, 4x4, KC or CC, but see my signature for my (future) specs.

One thing about the Ford website is that they have very good info on this (it didn't sell me on the Ford, but it is nice...) Nissan gives tow capacity and cargo capacity, but, being an engineer, I like to have all the numbers.

Thanks!
 

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titanjbc said:
Can someone tell me what the actual GVWR and GCVWR is for the Titan? I assume it's listed on either the door or in the owner's manual. I don't know if the manual breaks it down into 4x2, 4x4, KC or CC, but see my signature for my (future) specs.
titanjbc, GVWR for your truck is the same as mine which is 6,400 lbs, while GCVWR is 14,600, cargo cap is 1,455, GAWR for the front is 3,100 and rear is 3,800.

Karl
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Karl. I figured you'd be the one to have those numbers. :)
 

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titanjbc said:
Thanks Karl. I figured you'd be the one to have those numbers.
Anytime titanjbc. Do you plan on towing anything?

:cheers:

Karl
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Yeah, I'm the one that had replys on the other towing thread, planning to tow the 24' TT. I'm looking forward to it.

Running the numbers, they look good.

With a wet trailer weight around 6500#, the hitch should be around 700#. Curb Wt 4800# + Passengers (Me, Wife, 3 boys & Dog) 600# + Extra Stuff (Wood, Bikes) 150# + Hitch 700# = 6250#, just under GVWR. I'll be under the GCWVR by about 2500#, or 83% of GCVWR, which is perfect, right where I want to be weight-wise.

The only problem now is the wait. May for the truck and probably June for the trailer (have to wait until after the break-in period before I tow anything). It's going to kill me!!!!

I just saw your pics, verrry nice. One question, can you open your tailgate when hitched up, or does the tongue jack or propane tanks get in the way?
 

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titanjbc said:
Yeah, I'm the one that had replys on the other towing thread, planning to tow the 24' TT. I'm looking forward to it.

Running the numbers, they look good.

With a wet trailer weight around 6500#, the hitch should be around 700#. Curb Wt 4800# + Passengers (Me, Wife, 3 boys & Dog) 600# + Extra Stuff (Wood, Bikes) 150# + Hitch 700# = 6250#, just under GVWR. I'll be under the GCWVR by about 2500#, or 83% of GCVWR, which is perfect, right where I want to be weight-wise.

The only problem now is the wait. May for the truck and probably June for the trailer (have to wait until after the break-in period before I tow anything). It's going to kill me!!!!

I just saw your pics, verrry nice. One question, can you open your tailgate when hitched up, or does the tongue jack or propane tanks get in the way?
That's great, your future setup sounds very similar in weight to mine. I can assure you that it will be worth the wait though.

I can open the tailgate on my setup when hitched up as well.

Karl
 

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6,400lbs, that's kinda light. Doesn't the Big Tow pkg. increase the some ??? I hope so!

for example, the tow pkg. for the 2004 F150 increases its GVWR to 7200lb (from pre-pruchase researching).
 

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titanjbc said:
With a wet trailer weight around 6500#, the hitch should be around 700#. Curb Wt 4800# + Passengers (Me, Wife, 3 boys & Dog) 600# + Extra Stuff (Wood, Bikes) 150# + Hitch 700# = 6250#, just under GVWR.
Hmmm. Owner's manual states payload capacity of a 2WD SE CC w/utility bed as 1458 lbs (are you sure on the curb wt of 4800, I have a base king cab XE and it weighs in at 5011).

Your numbers above add up to 1450 payload, add snacks you are right at/over GVRW?
 

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4 X 2 crew cab with big tow package tow capacity is 9,200 lbs.

Just to clarify a few things - (4X2 CC with big tow)

The truck can only have 1,600 lbs of cargo (humans, gas, etc...) actually IN the truck. This does NOT take away from the 9,200 lb tow capacity.

BUT, what you tow, and what is in the truck, does come in to play for the GVCW which is 14,600. So the total of the weight of the truck (5,100) plus cargo in truck (750 for me - humans, gas) plus the weight of the trailer and hitch (about 8,400 for me) equals 14,250. So I'm only 400 lbs below the total of what I can be.

Btw, it pulls this weight GREAT at 65mph...
 

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sasilverbullet said:
4 X 2 crew cab with big tow package tow capacity is 9,200 lbs. The truck can only have 1,600 lbs of cargo (humans, gas, etc...) actually IN the truck.
Please help the trailer newbie out, before I get too light a trailer :) .

Since you mention 9200 tow capacity, I assume an LE. My owner's manual shows a max payload of 1334 lb for this model. Where are the 1600 lb payload figures coming from? Even my lighter XE KC shows a max payload of 1508 lbs (part of the reason I chose the XE, greater payload capacity).
 

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rvsixer said:
Please help the trailer newbie out, before I get too light a trailer :) .

Since you mention 9200 tow capacity, I assume an LE. My owner's manual shows a max payload of 1334 lb for this model. Where are the 1600 lb payload figures coming from? Even my lighter XE KC shows a max payload of 1508 lbs (part of the reason I chose the XE, greater payload capacity).

Payload capacity actually depends on the model. LE have more stuff on
them so Payload is less. Don't worry about 100lbs here or there. You should
worry about how much weight is on the front axle (Max FAWR 3500lbs) and
the rear axle (Max RAWR 3800lbs). Note the sum of both axle cannot be
more than 6500lbs GVWR. So you can be under both axle ratings and still
be above the GVWR. So my SE 4x4 king cab weighs 5550 with me and a
full tank of gas so I have 950lbs of capacity left. Now if you add a trailer
with 650lbs of tongue weight you now have only 300 lbs for cargo and people.
Needless to say it is easy to exceed the GVWR or RAWR on a 1/2 ton truck.
I think someone else already explained the combined weight ratings.

Zardoz
 

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Zardoz said:
Payload capacity actually depends on the model. LE have more stuff on
them so Payload is less.
Zardoz thank for the reply. Yes I know it depends on model, and that's exactly the reason for my questions.

The only Titan rated at or over 1600 lb payload capacity is the XE KC 2wd at 1641 (all others are below this figure). Yet we have heavier SE/LE CC 2wd w/util bed types claiming 1600+ payloads (owner's manual says 1334 to 1458 for these models).

I just wanted to make sure I was correctly understanding either a) you can have some increased payload capacity over book spec for some reason or 2) some are knowingly/unknowingly overloading by about 200lbs.
 

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Right of my 2X4 LE with tow package (no off road package) door sticker:

GVWR 6400
GAWR FR 3300
GAWR Rear 3800

page 9-20 of owners manual says that a CC LE with high utility bed has 1334 of Vehicle load weight capacity

page 9-23 says 9,200 lb trailer with a max tongue weight of 920 lbs. And it confirms the GCWR of 14,600.
 

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sasilverbullet said:
page 9-20 of owners manual says that a CC LE with high utility bed has 1334 of Vehicle load weight capacity
Okay we both read 1334 lb. payload. Your other message said "...have 1,600 lbs of cargo (humans, gas, etc...)...". That's where I got all confused :rollingey . Just to make sure I know how to figure safe loading, assuming I had a 1334 lb. payload LE and 8700 lb wet trailer, and chose to haul 750 lb of family in it:

Nissan recommends a tongue wt of 9-11% of trailer weight. That means a tongue wt of 783 lb min (9%) up to the 920 lb. max Nissan figure (10.5% of 9-11% Nissan spec).

Per the owner's manual 1334 lb max payload - (783-920 lb tongue wt) = 414 to 551 lbs left for people/cargo. With 750 lbs of family aboard, I would be to 199 to 336 lbs over GVWR, yes?

CGVWR would be 6500 lb max GVWR + 109 to 336 lbs overload + 8700 lb trailer = 15309 to 15536 lb. That means to 709 to 936 lbs over CGVWR, yes?

So I think overloaded both GVWR and CVGWR (and from what I have been reading about weights and wheelbases vs trailer length vs overhang, I would expect a lot of sway with this combo). Let me know if and where I went wrong.
 

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rvsixer said:
Okay we both read 1334 lb. payload. Your other message said "...have 1,600 lbs of cargo (humans, gas, etc...)...". That's where I got all confused :rollingey . Just to make sure I know how to figure safe loading, assuming I had a 1334 lb. payload LE and 8700 lb wet trailer, and chose to haul 750 lb of family in it:

Nissan recommends a tongue wt of 9-11% of trailer weight. That means a tongue wt of 783 lb min (9%) up to the 920 lb. max Nissan figure (10.5% of 9-11% Nissan spec).

Per the owner's manual 1334 lb max payload - (783-920 lb tongue wt) = 414 to 551 lbs left for people/cargo. With 750 lbs of family aboard, I would be to 199 to 336 lbs over GVWR, yes?

CGVWR would be 6500 lb max GVWR + 109 to 336 lbs overload + 8700 lb trailer = 15309 to 15536 lb. That means to 709 to 936 lbs over CGVWR, yes?

So I think overloaded both GVWR and CVGWR (and from what I have been reading about weights and wheelbases vs trailer length vs overhang, I would expect a lot of sway with this combo). Let me know if and where I went wrong.
Start over...

Forget about the percentage figures...just use the tongue weight figures from the trailer manufacturer and make sure it's not over 920 lbs.

My trailer is about 7,500 loaded, and the specs on the tongue weight for my trailer says it's 740 lbs. My human/gas load in the truck is about 750 lbs also.

The math:
truck dry weight - 5,100 lbs
humans/gas - 750 lbs
tongue weight - 740 lbs
total 6,590 lbs

Total the truck can carry is 6,400 according to the sticker. So I'm 190 lbs of truck carrying capacity over. IMPORTANT: I don't think this is a big deal because the equalizer hitch transfers some of the weight to the trailer axles.

Now to the overall figures:

IMPORTANT: I'm NOT using the tongue weight in this total because the tongue weight is PART OF the trailers overall weight!!!! IMPORTANT!!!

Trailer weight - 7,500 lbs
Truck weight - 5,850 lbs

total - 13,350 lbs

14,600 is the max, so I'm about 1,250 lbs under max for everything.

Inserting your figures -

Trailer weight - 8,700 lbs
Truck weight - 5,850 lbs

Your total - 14,550 lbs 450 lbs UNDER the max

Hope this helps...

btw, I've been towing big trailers for over 25 years...
 

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sasilverbullet said:
IMPORTANT: I'm NOT using the tongue weight in this total because the tongue weight is PART OF the trailers overall weight!!!! IMPORTANT!!!

Trailer weight - 7,500 lbs
Truck weight - 5,850 lbs
total - 13,350 lbs
14,600 is the max, so I'm about 1,250 lbs under max for everything

Inserting your figures -

Trailer weight - 8,700 lbs
Truck weight - 5,850 lbs

Your total - 14,550 lbs 450 lbs UNDER the max
Bingo, see I knew I was missing something! Looks like I've been adding tongue wt twice in CGVWR calcs, duh.

The figures in your previous towing report (http://www.titantalk.com/showthread.php?t=14188) said your trailer was 7900 empty, 8700 wet. So that's where "my" numbers came from (which are only 50 lb under max...not 450 lb).

Thanks for the education, I feel better equipped shopping now. Those salesman will sell you ANYTHING regardless of what TV you have :teethmast !
 

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I've been following this thread because I feel the same GVWR pain.

All I can figure is that by using a WDH your tounge rating is derated by some unknown amount. Does anyone know how to determine this "derating" ??? For example; by using a WDH the tounge rating of say 700lbs is derated by "xxx" amount because that weight is transfered back onto the trailer axles.

No matter how one does the math, with a 5,300lb truck loaded with 1,100lbs (4 men, full tank gas & cargo, equals the 6,400lb GVWR. That's without even figuring in the tounge weight.

Am I over looking or not understanding somthing here ???? Assuming that 6,400lbs is the Max GVWR for a LE Crew 4x4 w/ big tow, offroad pkgs.
 

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Towing

grey1977 said:
I've been following this thread because I feel the same GVWR pain.

All I can figure is that by using a WDH your tounge rating is derated by some unknown amount. Does anyone know how to determine this "derating" ??? For example; by using a WDH the tounge rating of say 700lbs is derated by "xxx" amount because that weight is transfered back onto the trailer axles.

No matter how one does the math, with a 5,300lb truck loaded with 1,100lbs (4 men, full tank gas & cargo, equals the 6,400lb GVWR. That's without even figuring in the tounge weight.

Am I over looking or not understanding somthing here ???? Assuming that 6,400lbs is the Max GVWR for a LE Crew 4x4 w/ big tow, offroad pkgs.

A WDH transfers weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle (not back to the trailer), to help level out the vehicle and keep weight on the steering wheels. The Titan is marginal as a tow vehicle because of it's GVWR. You're calculation is correct, the Titan will be overloaded by the tongue weight of the trailer. Check this link, [http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/41.cfm] lots of good towing info there.
 

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mrmason said:
A WDH transfers weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle (not back to the trailer), to help level out the vehicle and keep weight on the steering wheels. The Titan is marginal as a tow vehicle because of it's GVWR. You're calculation is correct, the Titan will be overloaded by the tongue weight of the trailer. Check this link, [http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings/forum/41.cfm] lots of good towing info there.
thanks for clearing that up for me. Not good news for alot of 1/2 ton towing people out there. Evidentially a lot of people are over loading their beloved 1/2 ton trucks, probably without even knowing it, by simply looking at the "tow rating" only, as I was doing.

For my described situation (above) the GVWR would be over loaded by:

Titan: 700 lbs
'04 F150: 200 lbs

I know they build these trucks with a factor of safety, but how much. So, how much "over loading" is acceptable? Interesting!

While a smaller camper &/or a little less "stuff" will help with the F150, there's almost no way to do it with the Titan. That's kinda depressing, because I was "that close" to buying a Titan. Really throws a wrench in the gears for me, now. :huh:
 
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