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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Considering tax is applied for the difference & the hassle of selling outright, trade-in has it’s benefits & shouldn’t be this hard. Logically should I work off MSRP 1st & then discuss trade in value or focus on current trade in value. Either way it shouldn’t make a difference, I don’t care if my appraised value is lower than expected as long as they are budging off MSRP, but how best to proceed? Thank you.
 

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See this thread about MSRP, trade-ins and a lot of other information about buying a new vehicle.

Read this thread
 

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Couple things to keep in mind.

1) Wholesale value could vary a bit by region.

2) You may want to "shop" the car to a couple different dealers to see what you can get for it. Shop it as if you just want to sell not interested in a new car (may have to visit used car dealers). This may tell you how off base the $22,000 offer is.

3) If you dealer is expecting you to push the price way off MRSP this is a way to preserve some profit and make it "appear" that they have met your price.

It is important to try to keep the trade-in, new truck price, and finance seperate this way you can see exactly what is going on and understand how much and where the dealer is making the profit on transaction.

I don't begrudge dealers fair profits (couple thousand dollars here or more depending on the retail value of the BMW) I just would like to see where it is and protect myself from the few that give dealers a bad name.
 

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geece1 said:
Couple things to keep in mind.

1) Wholesale value could vary a bit by region.

2) You may want to "shop" the car to a couple different dealers to see what you can get for it. Shop it as if you just want to sell not interested in a new car (may have to visit used car dealers). This may tell you how off base the $22,000 offer is.

3) If you dealer is expecting you to push the price way off MRSP this is a way to preserve some profit and make it "appear" that they have met your price.

It is important to try to keep the trade-in, new truck price, and finance seperate this way you can see exactly what is going on and understand how much and where the dealer is making the profit on transaction.

I don't begrudge dealers fair profits (couple thousand dollars here or more depending on the retail value of the BMW) I just would like to see where it is and protect myself from the few that give dealers a bad name.

I second that. Negotiate the final purchase price for a new car before even mentioning your trade-in.
 

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I have posted here before on a similar issue, the only way you will get a fair price for your trade-in, is "Leverage". Go to several dealers and tell them bottom line is this, at the other dealerships they are going to sell me the titan at their dealership for this much a month, with this much down with my trade, tell them they can roll their numbers any way they want, tell them you are about to sighn the deal, unless they can beat their price. Of course the leverage trick is you tell them a price that is actually about 40-50 dollars less a month then you were actually quoted, in the long run the only way they will be able to beat that price is to give you more for your trade, works like a charm, is it fair, probally not, but you know what is a unfair market !!!!. One more thing is do not let them get you with the, we can get you that price, but for a longer period of months, refuse to go that route, be firm on the amount of months you are willing to go for, more months finance = upside down or negative equaty, basically you are screwed if you do ever decide to Trade -In.
 

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As with my deal today, I first got a quote of $500 over invoice for the CC LE. While good, I didn't agree to anything until I heard what they would give me for my tundra.

Trade in value was about 16k for the Tundra. They went to the toyota dealer and asked around and they said in auctions the tundra would go for maybe 14k. So, they initially offered 14.5k. I didn't budge until I got 15k for the truck and still $500 over invoice for the Titan.

Worked out rather well, and I was happy. I could have sold the Tundra for around 16k, but the 1k is worth the hassle.

So keep in mind, dealers will often not even put your trade in on the lot, and go right to auction with it. And they'll give you what they think they can get for it an such an auction. This slips my mind until I buy a car and then i'm reminded.. oh ya... most likely it's off to the auction, unless the dealership sells that brand of car or have someone looking for it.

As another example, when I bought my Tundra in 01 I traded in a 96 4 Runner. Before I had even signed the papers for the Tundra, the salesman in the next cubicle had my 4Runner sold over the phone to someone looking for a used model that would come in.

A lot of factors... If you really think you can get more out of it, sell it yourself.. otherwise negotiate to where you're comfortable.. Make a firm offer (a little high), they will counter, then make another offer as your rock bottom offer (but still comfortable with). And be ready to walk. I almost did because of $300 today, and they saw that and finally agreed to what was fair for both of us. (I love buying vehicles...hehe...)
 

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Don said:
I have posted here before on a similar issue, the only way you will get a fair price for your trade-in, is "Leverage". Go to several dealers and tell them bottom line is this, at the other dealerships they are going to sell me the titan at their dealership for this much a month, with this much down with my trade, tell them they can roll their numbers any way they want, tell them you are about to sighn the deal, unless they can beat their price. Of course the leverage trick is you tell them a price that is actually about 40-50 dollars less a month then you were actually quoted, in the long run the only way they will be able to beat that price is to give you more for your trade, works like a charm, is it fair, probally not, but you know what is a unfair market !!!!. One more thing is do not let them get you with the, we can get you that price, but for a longer period of months, refuse to go that route, be firm on the amount of months you are willing to go for, more months finance = upside down or negative equaty, basically you are screwed if you do ever decide to Trade -In.
I don't think you should ever negotiate while talking about monthly payments. Always deal with the overall price. They can manipulate the price with interest rates too much when you consider the monthly payment. If you really have to deal with $40-$50 difference a month you probably can't afford it anyway.
I guess it pays for me to read your entire post before I write, but negotiate total price first, then negotiate interest rate. Yes it is negotiable.
 

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40-50$$ a month over the period of a 60 month loan will definatly effect the overall price of the vechicle, wouldn't you think !!!!!, aprox. $3,600.00, I have used this method to buy all my vechicles, and have always had my friends say how in the hell did you get that vechicle for that price. Well long story short whenever my friends are in the market for a new vechicle they have me go along, I love the game ha ha ha !!!!
 

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Don said:
40-50$$ a month over the period of a 60 month loan will definatly effect the overall price of the vechicle, wouldn't you think !!!!!, aprox. $3,600.00, I have used this method to buy all my vechicles, and have always had my friends say how in the hell did you get that vechicle for that price. Well long story short whenever my friends are in the market for a new vechicle they have me go along, I love the game ha ha ha !!!!
I agree $40-$50 a month adds up, but if it really is going to break you each month you shouldn't buy the vehicle.
Every dealer who gives advice as well as every publication I've read has really stressed to NEVER negogiate with your monthly payment, always negotiate your overall price. THEN negotiate your loan.

If your method works for you, good for you. I'm not going to change anything for you, I'm just informing other's what I've read and been told.

Bottom line is, if you're happy with the price of your vehicle no matter how you got there you'll be happy.
 

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Trade=ins and etc....

Ok....22,000 is pretty close on the BMW. Maybe a little light, bu the miles are hurting it. Avg. wholesale shows $22700, to which you make some adjustments on trim, condition, miles and color. Color makes a big difference on BMW's. But, I woul not say they are 3000 off. Maybe 500-1000 light, but I haven't looked at it.

Nissan has a push for all vehicles to be sold by the end of March....end of the Japanese fiscal year...everyone has pressure to move inventory. You should be able to get within 1000 of invoice, and get the 22,000 for the trade...but squeeze for another 500 or so.


Good Luck
 

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Well hell now I see what the problem is, you are baseing your facts on what you read and were "told", I am baseing my facts on experience, and where do u keep coming up with the if you cant afford the extra 40-50 dollars you should not be purchasing the vechicle, never said could not afford it, hell I think everyone could use and extra 40-50 each month, but that was not my point anyway, it was to get your vechlicle at the best price, Let me guess this is your first vechicle !!!!!!, or did you just get raked on your deal, have a great day, will not comment on this post anymore with you, since u know everything, well on what you were told or read that is !!!
 

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Actually, both methods are used by people to 'calculate' or 'translate' what just changed in the deal with good ol' dealer gamesmanship.

My experience (39 cars worth of which at least half wsere dealer bought new and/or used) has been to continue to push for the actual numbers within the deal as it is much easier to 'point out' where things can be 'cut' inside the deal. But alas, there are many dealers out there that won't even go there so at that point I take and shoot the numbers out myself right then and there. Then when we get to a bottom line payment (Since they have taken it that way) I ask ok, thats your calculation...and thats based on what interest rate and amount financed totals. Then they normally provide those freely. That's normally when (9 times out of 10) I say OK, I will be back with a check from my credit union as they can beat your rates easily (This can range anywhere from 1% - 7% on the interest portion alone)...BUT this is only if the bottom end number is 'reasonable'. Otherwise, out the door I go.

The whole buying a car thing is a game. And yes, many people get thier information from reading and talking to others of which some of that information is based on other peoples experiences - hence boards and threads like these. There are many ways to play the game...To win the game, you have to shop around, be willing to negotiate, never show just how much you love the vehicle during the negotiation and so on. You must also always be ready to walk if something begins to stink about the deal and also ready to sign if the deal comes into an agreement.

Chris
 

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Payments

Payments are one factor. I would suggest that people actually take the time to understand how thier payment is calculated. This goes for everything, mortages, leases, and car loans. There are plenty of loan calculators out there.

The reason is simple...and illustrated in the latest case of not knowing how payments work:

A guy was in on a used 2000, BMW Z3 recently, spent time on the internet, researched the car, found our car online and came to drive. The price was $24,995, of which I usually have about $1000 worth of wiggle room for discounts, and trade issues, so the bottom line is the car could be bought for about 23995.

Well, all is good...until he says he wants his payments to be no more than $300 per months for 48 months with no money down. AND IS COMPLETLY inflexible. At ZERO interest, 300X48 is $14400...how in the world could someone be that far off in their figures??? Happens all the time.
 

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Exactly 70Boss.

That individual had no idea what the numbers are under the numbers so to speak and obviously an unrealistic sort :teethmast

As far as the initial BMW that was offered 22k for. For a 01' with 35k miles on it the miles are actually right on for that car based on the national average. Of course, if you take the time to sell the vehicle on your own, your going to walk away with anywhere form $2-$3k more at least on that car. For a quick private sale, you could actually list it for $23,995 in the paper let a buyer haggle you down the $995 and still probably get $1k right off the bat over what the dealer offered you and sell it pretty quickly in a metro type of area. It comes down to what is your time and effort worth?


Chris
 

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I'd add this.

If the car you want was located at another dealer, before you sign anything make sure it's not sold first. :huh: :ftard:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you all for the replies! What a terrific forum. I am happy to report that I picked up “with trade in” a Galaxy KC/LE 4x2 & couldn’t be happier. Taking the advise mentioned I discussed new car price, once settled and agreed I brought in the trade equation. $29,140. for the LE with a $23,500.00 trade in. Btway I procured lending via USAA @ 3.25, on top of this my insurance will be lowered $200.00 annual. The LE is sans big tow, even though I will be hauling periodically I wanted the gas mileage advantage & still I don’t expect to move more than 4-5k lbs. My 1st aftermarket will be a hitch.
 

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Hey great job Optimist, welcome to the proud titan ownership club, I know you will love your new titan as much as I and everyone else, Congrats !!!!! :cheers:
 
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