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Discussion Starter #1
I know this has been tossed around several times and I am still unsure of why the timing advance needs to be reversed. After reading the repair manual ignition timing at idle can be 15 plus or minus 5 degrees. When I got the 2 degree advance I was at 15 so now I should be at 17 which is still within factory spec. Even if this adjusts the timing curve 2 degrees across the entire band the original map should be made to cover up to 20 degrees idle timing correct? After reading the manual the 2 degree timing advance seems to only adjust the idle timing hence the reason you feel the truck 'jump' a lil quicker off the line. I'm not sure what the data supports at the rpm range the vkpro is designed for max hp/torque. Hopefully I will have some uprev software here soon so I can play with this a little. I realize the vkpro will somehow affect the stock timing and air/fuel maps but if the stock map is designed on 15 plus or minus 5 degrees I dont see how being within stock setpoints is going to hurt you.
 

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Yep, you simply don't want to be pushing your timing from two different sources. Let the VKPro do its job as designed and you'll be very happy. It is designed as a 91 Octane device. Follow their specs for a very safe ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I guess what we need to know then is what was the idle ignition timing on stillen's test truck. You would think if they designed something then it should take into account nissans timing variances of 15 plus or minus 5. According to Kyle it does not bypass any safety features of the engine including the knock sensor so I would think if it senses knock it will retard the timing until knock is no longer sensed, obviously the piggy back is somehow allowing a more aggressive tune as compared to base map which is why they require 91 octane, but if the piggyback still allows all the safety functions of the engine to perform as normal, I dont see what difference the 2 degree advance would have. I guess I'll have my answer soon enough when they ship this thing out....
 

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Hopefully we get a definative answer on this soon....as I have already done the 2 degree advance AND I am looking to grab on of these modules in the near future.
 

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Shadowofnight2001r said:
Hopefully we get a definative answer on this soon....as I have already done the 2 degree advance AND I am looking to grab on of these modules in the near future.
There's a thread in which Kyle say the 2* advance must be removed to run the VK Pro module.
 

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Kyle stated at least two times the advance has to be removed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I know he said to remove it...but still waiting on an answer why?? even with the 2 degree advance everyone should still be in the repair manuals recommended range of 15 +/- 5 idle timing. I cant accept an answer to just remove it "because" if its because they dont know what will happen then fine just say so, but lets say I bought my truck used and never know that is had the timing advanced...I take it to the dealer and everything checks out within specs ( which it should even with the timing advance ) Then put this chip on....what's gonna happen to that guy? Sorry I just need an explanation..from what I've read in the manual the ecu tries to maintain stochiometric conditions and adjusts timing constantly but not to exceed a certain curve. I doubt that the cipher/consult2 would let you adjust timing enough to break something hence the reason it only keeps 2 degrees max in memory. I think that you can adjust it more but once you turn the engine off that goes away ( maybe the cipher guys can chime in more about this )
 

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CAPTMRGN said:
I know he said to remove it...but still waiting on an answer why?? even with the 2 degree advance everyone should still be in the repair manuals recommended range of 15 +/- 5 idle timing. I cant accept an answer to just remove it "because" if its because they dont know what will happen then fine just say so, but lets say I bought my truck used and never know that is had the timing advanced...I take it to the dealer and everything checks out within specs ( which it should even with the timing advance ) Then put this chip on....what's gonna happen to that guy? Sorry I just need an explanation..from what I've read in the manual the ecu tries to maintain stochiometric conditions and adjusts timing constantly but not to exceed a certain curve. I doubt that the cipher/consult2 would let you adjust timing enough to break something hence the reason it only keeps 2 degrees max in memory. I think that you can adjust it more but once you turn the engine off that goes away ( maybe the cipher guys can chime in more about this )
One thing is we don't know what timing curve Stillen program into the module (I know with Up Rev the timing can be as great as +7 at times). I'm sure they want a little safeguard in there. For ex. say if they max it out, plus the 2* might still put you under the "safe" limit. You one day go to a gas station with "bad" gas, your now in very dangerous territory. You could always if you want keep your 2* timing and see how it goes, I'm sure Stillen did extensive R&D before telling peoples what to keep and what to get rid of.
 

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So I guess those of us that have already done the 2 degree mod have to now go back to nissan and say " Uh...you know how you did that 2 degree advance for me I had printed out from my good guys on my nissan forum...the one I watched you do and we both noticed the better throttle response and power....yeah..could you remove that for me now " As well as pay them another 55 bucks to do it. ?

I would hope Stillen could modify/reflash these modules for us for future improvements and or maybe for situations like these for those of us that have modified our stock parameters ( And @ over 700 bucks for the module , you would think these mods/re-flashes would be free ? ) Hopefully Stillen ( Kyle ) chims in here......
 

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if you guys are going to be stubborn and not return your truck to the stock specifications advance wise, don't blame stillen when your truck starts knocking/pinging and eventually a blown motor
 

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baseballfanz said:
One thing is we don't know what timing curve Stillen program into the module (I know with Up Rev the timing can be as great as +7 at times). I'm sure they want a little safeguard in there. For ex. say if they max it out, plus the 2* might still put you under the "safe" limit. You one day go to a gas station with "bad" gas, your now in very dangerous territory. You could always if you want keep your 2* timing and see how it goes, I'm sure Stillen did extensive R&D before telling peoples what to keep and what to get rid of.

with uprev they increased timing a whole lot more than +7 they addedover 30-40 degrees of timing at diffrent intervals/rpms depending on what showed gains on the dyno, with my mods, then they took my truck out for a street tune to make sure it didnt knock/ping with the timing in each area..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So what you are saying is the 2 degree advance, advances the entire map 2 degrees or is it only changing the idle timing 2 degrees? because when I had mine done all I saw was idle ignition timing being changed 2 degrees. I guess this is where my confusion is...does it change the whole map?

and i think what baseballfanz was saying about +7 was that was +7 over stock setting which would probably be around 30-40 degrees based on rpm etc...I doubt it was advanced 30-40 degrees from stock setting
 

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I will gladly remove my 2 degree advance for the gains this provides....but this



CAPTMRGN said:
but lets say I bought my truck used and never know that is had the timing advanced...I take it to the dealer and everything checks out within specs ( which it should even with the timing advance ) Then put this chip on....what's gonna happen to that guy? )
is a valid concern with so many titans having this very easy ...very described mod here in the forums done already....then the truck sold. I guess EVERY titan that anybody bought used had better visit the dealer and have them check for/remove the 2 degree mod .....dealers would be asking why they are checking/removing this ?

Sounds like Stillen should flash the modules with a "possible " 2 degree advance not grenading the motor short/long term.

Like I said, I would gladly get my advance removed to gain maximum usage out of this module....and to keep MY motor safe...thats a no brainer.....but the poor guy who bought his titan used and it had the 2 degree mod performed ( Its so easy and well described here that I am sure quite a few titans have the 2 degree mod ) is gonna get hosed. And with this Stillen module so easily installed ( Dont have to pull out your ECU to send cross country ) I am sure more will get used and the possibility of a combining of the 2 ignition modifications becomes a real possibility.
 

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Hmmmm, I'm still offering the timing advance or removal here in the Chicago area for $25. Better to play it safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I think Stillen would sell alot more units if they would just test a titan with the 2 degree advance and see how it performs...or just try 1 degree first then 2 degrees. Just my 2 cents...
 

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CAPTMRGN said:
I think Stillen would sell alot more units if they would just test a titan with the 2 degree advance and see how it performs...or just try 1 degree first then 2 degrees. Just my 2 cents...
The Stillen VK Pro or any other tune ECU have a "CUSTOM" timing curve. The 2* is nice before we had tuning options but don't sweat the 2* now that the tuning options is here. It's pointless to add the 2* on top of any custom timing curve when that timing is already customized for max gains.

Also someone already reported they got the tracking number for their VK Pro module.:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah you're probably right...but that map was maximized for a bone stock titan...maybe we can squeeze some more out with the extra 2 degrees for those of us with intakes/exhaust mods....I didnt get a shipping confirmation yet but I ordered over the phone..anyways....the experimentation should begin soon...p.s. I hope it hasnt started shipping out yet...I'm gettin my axle seals replaced this weekend....that would be a bummer to get the chip and have my truck at the stealership.
 
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