E85 versus Gas

PiercerNC · Oct 12, 2007

Anyone heard of E85 producing more horsepower in FFV Titans. Iknow ethanol supposedly produces more power based on what I've read but I dont know if the ECM compensates in the tuning for this or not. Any suggestions or insights?:eveilgrin

Overide · Oct 12, 2007

E85 is not a performance fuel, so anything that you have heard about it producing more hp is false. If you have any performance upgrades, you cannot run E85.

Rick Guess · Oct 12, 2007

even a CAI

i was planning on that
but i dont wanna bring the E85 option to an end

Blown330 · Oct 12, 2007

Overide said:
E85 is not a performance fuel...

It's a hell of a lot better than gasoline if you run forced induction. E85 has less stored energy per mass than gas but its equivalent octane rating is much higher as well. It also has better characteristics when it comes to even fuel/air mixtures among others that makes it a very good performance fuel. If it was available locally I'd re-vamp my trucks fuel system and get a separate tune for it. There are a lot of shop cars making far more power on E85 than they ever did with any other pump gas.

silverkorn · Oct 12, 2007

as Blown330 had stated, the E85 will allow forced induction vehicles more horsepower as the octane rating for it is closer to 100 and its priced around mid-grade pump gas is.

you can get a little more power in a naturally aspirated vehicle by increasing the timing more, but the power gains are not that significant as compaired to a FI vehicle.

Overide · Oct 12, 2007

Why does stillen tell you not to use E85 with the VK-Pro programer?

Stillen said:
Not to be used with Ethanol fuel. Ethanol fuel is not a performance fuel and does not have the same burn characteristics as traditional fuel.

Overide · Oct 12, 2007

Wikipedia said:
Ethanol is most commonly used to power automobiles, though it may be used to power other vehicles, such as farm tractors and airplanes. Ethanol (E100) consumption in an engine is approximately 34% higher than that of gasoline (the energy per volume unit is 34% lower)[15][16][17]. However, higher compression ratios in an ethanol-only engine allow for increased power output and better fuel economy than would be obtained with the lower compression ratio.[18][19] In general, ethanol-only engines are tuned to give slightly better power and torque output to gasoline-powered engines. In flexible fuel vehicles, the lower compression ratio requires tunings that give the same output when using either gasoline or hydrated ethanol. For maximum use of ethanol's benefits, a much higher compression ratio should be used,[20] which would render that engine unsuitable for gasoline usage. When ethanol fuel availability allows high-compression ethanol-only vehicles to be practical, the fuel efficiency of such engines should be equal or greater than current gasoline engines. However, since the energy content (by volume) of ethanol fuel is less than gasoline, a larger volume of ethanol fuel would still be required to produce the same amount of energy.[21]

A 2004 MIT study,[22] and paper published by the Society of Automotive Engineers,[23] present the possibility of a definite advance over hybrid electric cars' cost-efficiency by using a high-output turbocharger in combination with continuous dual-fuel direct injection of pure alcohol and pure gasoline in any ratio up to 100% of either. Each fuel is stored separately, probably with a much smaller tank for alcohol, the peak cost-efficiency being calculated to occur at approximately 30% alcohol mix, at maximum engine power. The estimated cost advantage is calculated at 4.6:1 return on the cost of alcohol used, in gasoline costs saved, when the alcohol is used primarily as an octane modifier and is otherwise conserved. With the cost of new equipment factored in the data gives a 3:1 improvement in payback over hybrid, and 4:1 over turbo-diesel (comparing consumer investment yield only). In addition, the danger of water absorption into pre-mixed gasoline and supply issues of multiple mix ratios can be addressed by this system.

Ethanol's higher octane allows an increase of an engine's compression ratio for increased thermal efficiency according to the formula given at [24]. In one study, complex engine controls and increased exhaust gas recirculation allowed a compression ratio of 19.5 with fuels ranging from neat ethanol to E50. Thermal efficiency up to approximately that for a diesel was achieved.[25] This would result in the MPG of a dedicated ethanol vehicle to be about the same as one burning gasoline.

Engines using fuel with from 30% to 100% ethanol also need a cold-starting system. For E85 fuel at temperatures below 11 °C (52 °F) a cold-starting system is required for reliable starting and to meet EPA emissions standards.

So higher compression and a supercharger/turbocharger will better use E85, but without modifying the compression it is not as efficient....

purplegodzilla · Oct 13, 2007

Here ya go, all the information about e85.

http://www.agriculture.state.ia.us/e85q&a.html

Contrary to what most people think, higher octane gasoline DO NOT make more horsepower. What it only does is decrease the chance of detonation in turn allows you to run either higher timing, higher compression, or run higher boost in the case of force induction.

So with that being said..If you are put e85 in your Truck or vehicle without any type of changes and expect a little ooompht power in the seat of your pant, you will be SOL.

master_1011 · Oct 14, 2007

All I want to know, is if I mix E85 with 91 octane fuel for my car, will it hold an octane rating of 100 or more......

silverkorn · Oct 17, 2007

E85 fuel has an octane rating close to 100 as comapred to normal pump gas. you have to make sure your car has been approved and/or converted to run the E85, which requires the use of a plastic line fuel line.

Quartz · Oct 17, 2007

Much info about E85 but the original question has not been answered. Does E85 produce more horsepower in FFV Titans?

silverkorn · Oct 17, 2007

the original question was answered...

a stock FFV titan will not gain any power by just running E85

a forced induction FFV Titan COULD gain from running E85 with proper tuning

Maverick_Titan · Oct 29, 2007

new question then is .. does anyone know if UPRev can or has tuned for E-85 or is there any member on here that has been Uprev tuned running E-85 ? i'm interested in this as that's pretty much all i use in my truck and am getting mileage wise about the same mpg as i did on gas now that my truck is used to it .. just curious .. thanks .. i been away for awhile

contacting UpRev just to cover my bases ..thought i'd check here too though

silverkorn · Nov 2, 2007

i havnt seen anything about someone getting an E85 tune made. i would assume you would use the 93/94 octane tune. there is only so much power you can get by advancing the timing

Maverick_Titan · Nov 3, 2007

yeah .. i have the 2* advance ... had it for awhile now .. not sure the exact date unless randy saved it on his laptop .. but, i can definitely burn sum rubber w/o hesitation on E-85 .. just thinkin i would like to see if there's anymore i can get out of it just short of adding more performance parts .. and maybe see if i can keep my foot off the pedal long enough .. if there's any mpg gain/ loss with a correct tune with that fuel .. thanks

val · Nov 3, 2007

i am tuned for 93---when running 85---the burn is clean & smooth---less btu's/less performance---2 mpg less

E85 versus Gas

PiercerNC

Overide

Rick Guess

Blown330

silverkorn

Overide

Overide

purplegodzilla

master_1011

silverkorn

Quartz

silverkorn

Maverick_Titan

silverkorn

Maverick_Titan

val

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