Massive VDC intervention at the track

frogui · Nov 5, 2004

Went to the track yesterday after 2 15.4s The light tree took too long while I was power braking and then the ECU sort off pulled timing and fuel real hard. The truck wouldn't go over 2000 and then cut back to idle. It did this for all of the 1/8 (2k, idle, 2k, idle all the way, very strange). I put it in neutral stepped on the gas, lifted, put back in d and everything was peachy. Was this some sort of limp home mode for power breaking too long? I though I had overheated the tranny but the gage was right in the middle so that was ok. Check engine light didn't even go off. Whatt could this be? have any off you gone through this. It seemed like massive VDC intervention although it was off at the time.

One more thing how are guys getting high 14's low low 15s with stock. I need lessons cause I wont get lower than 15.6 loaded and a 15.4 @88.8 with no spare and tailgate. I power brake a bit until maybe 1500 and smash the throttle at green. I let it in d all the way and VDC off. Its a big tow CC SE. Thanks for any help.

Gig'em · Nov 5, 2004

I don't know why it did this, but it sounds like your Titan was mad at you for being so mean to it. :huh:

Slurppie · Nov 5, 2004

I read in the ESM that the ECU will go into limp mode if it detects rev's above a certain point with no movement. The higher the rev's the faster it will shut down.

PHOEBISIS · Nov 5, 2004

Nobody gets 14's stock!?

I don't think anyone has gotten 14's stock.In fact,I think only the Head has gotten under 15,and this was with some mods(exhaust,and maybe intake).He has gotten well under 15 with N2O,but that is a long way from stock.He might be the only sub 15 period.Your 15.4 is pretty decent for a stock truck-the truck mags got 15.3,and it wasn't a true 15.3,it was corrected for temp,humidity,altitude.Thanks,Charlie

GETSOMZ28 · Nov 5, 2004

Yeah, it is probably better to flash it off idle (just give it enough gas to take up the driveline slack) than to stall it up.

I think what you experienced is the VDC doing what it is supposed to when it detects excessive wheelspin (pulling timing, applying brakes, etc).

frogui · Nov 5, 2004

Thanks for the esm info. I'll try an easier takeoff next time. It's just that there was a toyota echo in the next lane I wanted to pick on. Those thing turn low 15s with intake and exhaust. They shouldn't be that fast when they are that ugly. Although they are comfy inside.

mikedpsych · Nov 5, 2004

Again...why are you racing a truck? Get a used corvette...they were built for the track.

extunder · Nov 5, 2004

from the service manual

Fail-Safe ECS007SQ
The TCM has an electrical fail-safe mode. This mode makes it possible to operate even if there is a an error in
a main electronic control input/output signal circuit.
In fail-safe mode the transmission is fixed in 2nd, 4th, or 5th (depending on the breakdown position), so the
customer should feel “slipping” or “poor acceleration”. When fail-safe mode is triggered, when the ignition
switch is switched “ON”, the AT CHECK indicator lamp flashes for about 8 seconds.
Even when the electronic circuits are normal, under special conditions (for example, when slamming on the
brake with the wheels spinning drastically and stopping the tire rotation), the transmission can go into fail-safe
mode. If this happens, switch “OFF” the ignition switch for 10 seconds, then switch it “ON” again to return to
the normal shift pattern. Also, the AT CHECK indicator lamp flashes for about 8 seconds once, then is cleared.
Therefore, the customer's vehicle has returned to normal, so handle according to the “diagnostics flow” (Refer
to AT-46, "WORK FLOW" ).

extunder · Nov 5, 2004

BTW, happened to me, spinning in the mud, and I don't have VDC.

frogui · Nov 5, 2004

Racing a truck
1. It's fun.
2. Lightning
3. Typhoon
4. Cyclone
5. RAM SRT-10
6. Nascar trucks

Do I need to? No. Actually, I have a Suzuki Hayabusa mid-nines, so I don't need a used vette. But the track is ten minutes away and I can get 3-5 passes in about 1.5 hours. Not really racing, but timing. The truck is stock so it's just the same as going hard from a stoplight for 15 secs, nothing more. Sorry, for the sarcasm. I only have to haul a cooler and beach chairs so I don't need a truck. But the Titan is one comfy big a$$ car.

Gig'em · Nov 5, 2004

extunder said:
BTW, happened to me, spinning in the mud, and I don't have VDC.

The fact that it happened at the track didn't bother me. The fact that it happened to you in the mud...does.

JMC · Nov 5, 2004

Stay off the brake. The ECM will kill it all if you have one foot on the brake and one one on the gas....or mine does anyway.

extunder · Nov 5, 2004

Gig'em said:
The fact that it happened at the track didn't bother me. The fact that it happened to you in the mud...does.

I drove all the way out to the hard road in fourth gear, not knowing what was wrong. Not a good place to stop and shut off and restart.

In my Titan's defense, though, I was spinning in 2Hi, stopped the spin(engaging fail safe), switched to 4Lo, then limped out without being able to shift gears. Wish I knew then about fail safe mode.
All things considered, Titan is awsome off road.

phillipyang · Nov 6, 2004

how do you do powerbraking? Tires spinning?

:::Feeling dumb:::

GETSOMZ28 · Nov 6, 2004

Powerbraking is holding the brake while giving it gas. This will stall up the converter until the you lose traction (brake stall) and eventually if you give it enough gas, the tires start to spin.

loufish · Nov 6, 2004

if you give it enough gas, the tires start to spin.

Not mine! I turn the VDC off, nail it from a dead stop, get about 1/2 turn from the tire, and thats it. It takes off hard & fast, but no wheel spin...I don't know how some of the other guys are getting all this wheel spin, or maybe there's something wrong with my truck.. :crying:

pciley · Nov 9, 2004

I never had this problem at the track. The tree might have been quicker where I went though. Maybe I didn't sit there long enough for it to go into fail safe mode.

When I did brake-stands to warm up the tires, I got about 10-15 rotations and then the truck's computers would shut down the throttle.

After trying different launches I felt the least amount of wheel spin with the hardest launch at about 3k RPM. I don't have Big Tow and I upped the tires about 1.2" over stock height. Whatever that means to you guys...

phoebisis said:
I don't think anyone has gotten 14's stock.In fact,I think only the Head has gotten under 15,and this was with some mods(exhaust,and maybe intake).He has gotten well under 15 with N2O,but that is a long way from stock.He might be the only sub 15 period.Your 15.4 is pretty decent for a stock truck-the truck mags got 15.3,and it wasn't a true 15.3,it was corrected for temp,humidity,altitude.Thanks,Charlie

Yah, I don't know about a 15.3 stock... With the lightest Titan I had to put on the Banks kit and the Volant to see a 15.3.
After the rear helper spring/traction bar install (Jet-tech: install reduces axle wrap and improves launching to up your 0-60 time), Juma's throttle body bypass, custom straight pipes in place of the resonators, and running 91 octane, I just barely tipped into the high 14.9s.
Yah, I think after the head's NOS install, he is the fastest Titan user that is actively posting here.

loufish · Nov 9, 2004

I felt the least amount of wheel spin with the hardest launch at about 3k RPM.

Mine stalls at 2000 rpm, that's it. Maybe I'm not doing it quite right....been smoking tires with brake-standing since 1975, but maybe I'm not doing something right :hat:

the head · Nov 10, 2004

I stall between 1500 and 1700 rpm for the best launches, with my truck. I got 15.1s out of mine bone stock minus the tailgate and spare tire. And I mean stock everything - down to the air filter. I had a hard time replicating that, though. I ran mostly 15.3s-15.2s stock.

SAWEETTITAN · Nov 12, 2004

Man and yall wonder why your trucks are in the shop all the time. JK

Tom Roper · Nov 12, 2004

People who run at the track are smart, and honest. The guy losing to the Toyota Echo on the track gets my respect, not the street braggart who says he beat the Hemi.

Mike Up · Nov 12, 2004

loufish said:
Not mine! I turn the VDC off, nail it from a dead stop, get about 1/2 turn from the tire, and thats it. It takes off hard & fast, but no wheel spin...I don't know how some of the other guys are getting all this wheel spin, or maybe there's something wrong with my truck.. :crying:

I don't race but that sounds weak for this truck. Even with the 32.7"/285 tires on the Off-Road, my tires squeal at 50% throttle. I've really started to master on how "NOT" to squeal the tires. After driving my 4160# 4X4 SE Xterra with a measly 170 HP for 5 years, it was hard learning to tip in on the pedal.

Overall, I'm pretty gentle and try not to peal out, but every once in a while I need fast acceleration and I give it a bit to much throttle. :coolsmile

I'd check to make sure that your fuel injectors and gas filter didn't get plugged up from bad gas. With my X, I had the injectors cleaned once and the fuel filter replaced another time. Both times, performance was like adding a 100 octane. You're problem is probably something simple.

Do remember to put the HP and Torque into perspective though. With the weight of the Titan, it's comparable to a 2004 Mustang with 202 HP and 252 ft/lbs of torque. Titan @ 5046# and Mustang @ 3350#. In actualality, we have fast "TRUCKS" but nothing compared to a muscle car. That's why I have to laugh at the HEMI commercials. If any Hemi car was as slow as the HEMI RAM, the Hemi name would mean nothing. My old Camaro had 200 HP and 225 ft/lbs of Torque, but this Titan does feel stronger because of the much higher gearing of the Titan. The Camaro was geared low for fuel economy or just Chevy's stupidy.

Have a good one.

pciley · Nov 12, 2004

Mike Up said:
...
I'd check to make sure that your fuel injectors and gas filter didn't get plugged up from bad gas. With my X, I had the injectors cleaned once and the fuel filter replaced another time. Both times, performance was like adding a 100 octane. You're problem is probably something simple.

Have a good one.

Good suggestion on the fuel issues, but I really don't think there is any problem other than the annoyance of not being able to do a burnout at will.

Lots of folks have talked about this issue and it just seems to bring us right back to the damn throttle-by-wire system. A little electronic servo receives power from the truck's computer. The truck's computer is programmed for COMPLETE RETARDS who don't know how to drive. Its a fool-proofing feature so you don't lose traction so often... Even if you really want to.

I wish there was an ECU flash available for people who are not idiots and don't need this feature on ALL the time... or maybe a button to turn it off. Turning off VDC does not get rid of this.

markislive78 · Dec 30, 2004

Try not power braking

Don't power brake i notice a much better take off comming out the hole @ 3/4 throttle then i bury the accelerator @ about 12mph to minimize wheel spin. I don't have ABLS so tractions a bigger problem for me having an open diff.

frogui said:
Went to the track yesterday after 2 15.4s The light tree took too long while I was power braking and then the ECU sort off pulled timing and fuel real hard. The truck wouldn't go over 2000 and then cut back to idle. It did this for all of the 1/8 (2k, idle, 2k, idle all the way, very strange). I put it in neutral stepped on the gas, lifted, put back in d and everything was peachy. Was this some sort of limp home mode for power breaking too long? I though I had overheated the tranny but the gage was right in the middle so that was ok. Check engine light didn't even go off. Whatt could this be? have any off you gone through this. It seemed like massive VDC intervention although it was off at the time.

One more thing how are guys getting high 14's low low 15s with stock. I need lessons cause I wont get lower than 15.6 loaded and a 15.4 @88.8 with no spare and tailgate. I power brake a bit until maybe 1500 and smash the throttle at green. I let it in d all the way and VDC off. Its a big tow CC SE. Thanks for any help.

Massive VDC intervention at the track

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