Does anyone have any data comparing the rotor thickness of the original (2004) rotors and the ones they are using in the repair kit, part # 40206-ZC00A? I am curious how much thicker they are, to compare to after-market rotors. I have a 2004 SE with 36,000 miles. I have never had the brake judder until recently, and it is only very slight now, but my pads are nearly gone and I figured that is the reason. Took it to the dealer, and they told me what I suspected, the pads are used up, so they wouldn't do the repair. They told me the problem has to be related to brake judder from bad parts, not from worn out pads. I am looking at ceramic pads and new rotors, possibly the Powerslots, when I do the brake job. According to a NAPA store, the new pads are ceramic and are made by United, a subsidiary of Bendix, and they also make the newer rotors. NAPA gets their parts from the same manufacturer.
Rotor Size
KYDeepwater
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Does anyone have any data comparing the rotor thickness of the original (2004) rotors and the ones they are using in the repair kit, part # 40206-ZC00A? I am curious how much thicker they are, to compare to after-market rotors. I have a 2004 SE with 36,000 miles. I have never had the brake judder until recently, and it is only very slight now, but my pads are nearly gone and I figured that is the reason. Took it to the dealer, and they told me what I suspected, the pads are used up, so they wouldn't do the repair. They told me the problem has to be related to brake judder from bad parts, not from worn out pads. I am looking at ceramic pads and new rotors, possibly the Powerslots, when I do the brake job. According to a NAPA store, the new pads are ceramic and are made by United, a subsidiary of Bendix, and they also make the newer rotors. NAPA gets their parts from the same manufacturer.
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Why buy rotors yourself when Nissan will buy them for you when they fail?
Warranty on brakes was extended to 3yrs, unlimited mileage. So as long as you're within that, keep using the original brakes. Should they fail, Nissan will get you new ones.
I have a 2004 SE with the new brakes, and they have been good for over 10,000 miles now. Also a LOT less brake dust.
Warranty on brakes was extended to 3yrs, unlimited mileage. So as long as you're within that, keep using the original brakes. Should they fail, Nissan will get you new ones.
I have a 2004 SE with the new brakes, and they have been good for over 10,000 miles now. Also a LOT less brake dust.
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You can get the new brake rotors and pads for free. They are not thicker, but they do have more mass. This allows them to soak up and shed more heat, which in turn stops the warping. Different design, not size. The pads are also different.KYDeepwater said:
As the guy above posted, why buy when you get them for free from Nissan? The stock setup is the best braking setup of the class, braking you 60-0 faster than any full size truck, and faster even than the Honda Accord. :huh:
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As explained to me by the service manager, the pads on my truck are worn out (90 % gone), the brake judder problem was not prevalent when sufficient pad was on the truck, so they are only responsible for fixing the brake judder problem on acceptable equipment. Maybe this is why it is so hard to get a dealer to do the proper work, so many people squeezing the system to get something for free, when a legitimate complaint comes out, the dealers resist because of so many cheaters out there. If you purchase a vehicle that works properly, and the pads wear out, the dealer doesn't replace them for free. The pads are considered wear items, and are treated as such. With 33,000 miles on organic cheap pads, that is their life.
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I'm not following how worn pads equates to acceptable brake judder. It would seem that if the pads are replaced timely (paid for by truck owner), there should be no problem with the rotors. If there is a problem with the rotors, then the dealer should replace them.KYDeepwater said:
I've never had, nor have I ever heard of worn out brake pads causing brake judder. If you truly believe the dealer when he says judder is caused by pads then go ahead and buy aftermarket. But, if the same dealer is Kerry Nissan in Florence that is telling you this, I would take what they said with a grain of salt. This is the same dealer that told me there wasn't a recall for the fuel sending unit in my old xterra when it was posted on Nissan's website.KYDeepwater said:
If I were in your shoes, I would have them put on a set of pads, keep my reciept, and wait to see if it fixed it. If it's fixed then you've got about 2 more years until you need new brakes and the money you would have spent on aftermarket stuff still in your pocket. If it doesn't fix it, then make them give you the upgraded brakes and refund the money spent on new brake pads. Whatever the case may be, hope you get it figured out.
Mark
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Just tell them you have the "judders". They (Nissan Service dept) are obligated to fix (no questions asked) the TSB problem it as long as the consumer claims of it's presence. Just be insistent that you've felt the "judder" every now and then for the past 6 months (not all the time). Don't play too naive for them or they'll take you to the cleaners.
BTW, you could also claim that your doors were "frozen" when the temperature dipped below 32 degrees early this month and they "WILL" change ALL (4) the door latch mechanisms in your crew cab under the new TSB protocol. I've complained about the drivers door freezing and they (Nissan Service) ordered all 4 door latches for replacement. Just waiting for their arrival to be installed by them.
Good Luck:cheers:
BTW, you could also claim that your doors were "frozen" when the temperature dipped below 32 degrees early this month and they "WILL" change ALL (4) the door latch mechanisms in your crew cab under the new TSB protocol. I've complained about the drivers door freezing and they (Nissan Service) ordered all 4 door latches for replacement. Just waiting for their arrival to be installed by them.
Good Luck:cheers:
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Ask/tell them brake judder needs to be repaired, this IS covered by Nissans extended brake warranty. I can tell you this, no one is cheating Nissan about brake work. Nissan simply had brake issues and it was their job to find this out & fix it before releasing the Titan, by letting it go and fixing it "on the fly" they have already "cheated" me out of about 10 hours of my life I'll never get back!
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Thanks, Qwikwhip, that is what I was looking for. I have the Powerslot rotors and Akebono ACT pads to put on. Kind of sucks that the original brakes lasted only 33K, but the passenger side pads are more than 90 % gone. I'll let you know how they feel. Looks like #1 and #2 values are mixed up, the outer on the old one looks thicker than the inner in the photo. I'll compare the inside, back edge of the old rotor to the Powerslots when I take the old ones off. I think I saw thickness numbers stamped in the ends of the Powerslots, I'll check that also.
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If this is the route you want to take, at least make your Nissan Service center install them for you for free! Nissan owes you that.KYDeepwater said:
I was on this same road a year ago. At 3K miles, I had the judders and there was no rotor replacement at that time. I decided to take matters in my own hands and ordered the Stillen Big Brake kit. My local Nissan service center installed it for free. No kidding!! Click on brake upgrade link below my SIG. I also started the 1 year Big Brake kit update on this Brake forum below.
Good Luck.
lol, Just noticed that. I just reposted the pics though.KYDeepwater said:
Honestly I can't see why they would even make them with two different thickness'. Brakes are constantly hot-cold. And last time I check, metal will expand and contract with hot and cold. So that means these rotors are expanding and contracting at different rates due to different thickness'. Sounds like common sense to me as to why they warp.
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I looked at my Powerslot rotors last night. They are the same size and design as the original rotors from Nissan. Looks like they took the original rotor design, grooved the slots in them, and placed an oxide layer on the rotor to make it brighter to prevent some of the rust down the road. They came from Tirerack, so my guess is Powerslot bought some originals before the new rotors were available, and they have been sitting in the Tirerack warehouse for some time. I called Napa and they supposedly have the new ones in stock, I am going there at lunch with Qwikwhip's photos to see if they are the new design or the old design.
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Material thickness shouldn't effect expansion rate, as long as all other factors remain the same. The rate of expansion is dependent on material properties, not material quantities.QWIKWHIP said:lol, Just noticed that. I just reposted the pics though.
Honestly I can't see why they would even make them with two different thickness'. Brakes are constantly hot-cold. And last time I check, metal will expand and contract with hot and cold. So that means these rotors are expanding and contracting at different rates due to different thickness'. Sounds like common sense to me as to why they warp.
That doesn't make any sense to me though? Wouldn't the thicker side take longer to heat up and expand, then cool down and contract than the thin side? I would think that the two different thickness' would be working against each other all the time causing the warpage?? And why did the equal thickness rotors solve the problem?ptgarcia said:
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Rotor Size follow-up and information?
Follow-up to my brake replacement situation. I have 33,000 miles on the 2004 Titan and the passenger pads are down to less than 10 % pad. Just in the last 2,000 miles I have noticed a very slight pulsation in the brake pedal, so I tried the dealer for a free replacement. Local dealer wanted to charge for a brake job, even mentioned turning the old rotors, because of the pad wear. So I decided I would spend less money than they charge and replace the brakes and rotors myself. I hate dealers (STEALERS)!
I ordered Powerslot rotors and Akebono ACT pads from tirerack.com, and the rotors are the "old design", one edge of the rotor is thinner than the other. When I received the rotors, I called Tirerack and they said they had the "new design" rotors in another warehouse and sent me a second set, which turned out to be exactly like the first "old design" set.
So, I spent a lot of time this week talking to Mossyperformance, thinking they had the newer design rotors based on the photos they published and were attached in this thread per Qwikwhip. The photos from Qwikwhip show the old and new rotors and mention the Powerslots edge thickness, but no photo of the Powerslot rotors. When I mentioned the order from Tirerack, Mossyperformance pulled a number of their Powerslots from the shelf and all were identical to the old design, none of them had the same edge thickness as the "new" Nissan rotors. The tech at Mossy couldn't tell me why they mentioned the Powerslot rotor thickness in the photos they took without checking any rotors.
Upon learning this, I called Powerslot and they told me they knew of none of the new designs being received for slotting. A tech rep at Powerslot said he thought that the brake pedal height had a lot to do with the judder problem (I don't remember his exact reasoning but it sounded plausible at the time), and that is why it is the first check mentioned in the brake replacement TSB. He also mentioned that in the TSB Indexing of the rotors is very carefully mentioned and should be performed, which leads him to believe that is why the original rotors are different edge thicknesses due to spacing of the calipers, brackets, wheels, etc. He thinks on most of the new brake replacement jobs that some of the rotor outer edge has to be machined away to make them fit properly, so the new rotors are cast with the same edge thicknesses, and then made to fit. He also mentioned that 270 mm edge thickness is more than enough pad to prevent warping, except in severe duty use, and with improved metallurgy the Powerslot rotors are an improvement over the OEM rotors.
This has led me back to using the first set of Powerslots and Akebono ACT pads. I will put this set on this weekend and see how they perform. I have the ACT pads on the 2002 Sequoia now, but with smooth rotors, and they are wonderful. Will follow-up in a couple of weeks with an update.
This ordeal has been much more work than expected, but I think I learned a few things. Who would have known that after two years it would be so hard to get good information regarding the brake parts for this truck. I ordered from Tirerack last fall, new rotors and pads for the Sequoia, replaced the pads and rotors in minutes, $ 210 total, and no problems what so ever.
Follow-up to my brake replacement situation. I have 33,000 miles on the 2004 Titan and the passenger pads are down to less than 10 % pad. Just in the last 2,000 miles I have noticed a very slight pulsation in the brake pedal, so I tried the dealer for a free replacement. Local dealer wanted to charge for a brake job, even mentioned turning the old rotors, because of the pad wear. So I decided I would spend less money than they charge and replace the brakes and rotors myself. I hate dealers (STEALERS)!
I ordered Powerslot rotors and Akebono ACT pads from tirerack.com, and the rotors are the "old design", one edge of the rotor is thinner than the other. When I received the rotors, I called Tirerack and they said they had the "new design" rotors in another warehouse and sent me a second set, which turned out to be exactly like the first "old design" set.
So, I spent a lot of time this week talking to Mossyperformance, thinking they had the newer design rotors based on the photos they published and were attached in this thread per Qwikwhip. The photos from Qwikwhip show the old and new rotors and mention the Powerslots edge thickness, but no photo of the Powerslot rotors. When I mentioned the order from Tirerack, Mossyperformance pulled a number of their Powerslots from the shelf and all were identical to the old design, none of them had the same edge thickness as the "new" Nissan rotors. The tech at Mossy couldn't tell me why they mentioned the Powerslot rotor thickness in the photos they took without checking any rotors.
Upon learning this, I called Powerslot and they told me they knew of none of the new designs being received for slotting. A tech rep at Powerslot said he thought that the brake pedal height had a lot to do with the judder problem (I don't remember his exact reasoning but it sounded plausible at the time), and that is why it is the first check mentioned in the brake replacement TSB. He also mentioned that in the TSB Indexing of the rotors is very carefully mentioned and should be performed, which leads him to believe that is why the original rotors are different edge thicknesses due to spacing of the calipers, brackets, wheels, etc. He thinks on most of the new brake replacement jobs that some of the rotor outer edge has to be machined away to make them fit properly, so the new rotors are cast with the same edge thicknesses, and then made to fit. He also mentioned that 270 mm edge thickness is more than enough pad to prevent warping, except in severe duty use, and with improved metallurgy the Powerslot rotors are an improvement over the OEM rotors.
This has led me back to using the first set of Powerslots and Akebono ACT pads. I will put this set on this weekend and see how they perform. I have the ACT pads on the 2002 Sequoia now, but with smooth rotors, and they are wonderful. Will follow-up in a couple of weeks with an update.
This ordeal has been much more work than expected, but I think I learned a few things. Who would have known that after two years it would be so hard to get good information regarding the brake parts for this truck. I ordered from Tirerack last fall, new rotors and pads for the Sequoia, replaced the pads and rotors in minutes, $ 210 total, and no problems what so ever.
Re: Rotor Size follow-up and information?
This is defenitly not the case. If you look at the photos, the center vented section is slightly smaller on the new rotors. Hence taking up the additional thickness. I'm still not convinced that it isn't the two different thickness' causing the problem. It will be interesting to see how they hold up over time for you. I look forward to hearing your reviews.
KYDeepwater said:
This is defenitly not the case. If you look at the photos, the center vented section is slightly smaller on the new rotors. Hence taking up the additional thickness. I'm still not convinced that it isn't the two different thickness' causing the problem. It will be interesting to see how they hold up over time for you. I look forward to hearing your reviews.
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