KABOOM!! - Another Diff Grenades

John Harden · Nov 2, 2006

Details of my truck are in my tag line, but suffice to say it just wen BANG at 15,000 miles. I can't help but notice that looking at the diff failure spreadsheet posted on this forum shows this to be the average mileage for when they first go. 4X4 with E-Locker, so no surprise there.

Truck is off at a custom fab shop having rock sliders put on and owner calls to tell me rear end is popping and grinding a little when they pull the truck in and out of their garage. Today they call to say it just grenaded and the drive shaft just spins when you rev the motor. This is a great shop, real pro's so I doubt they were doing anything stupid with the truck.

My dealership says the new ones for my model are "upgraged", so I take that to mean they're the new, 4 ring & pinion type. Only time will tell if it'll hang in there.

I mainly use my truck for offroading, so I really want to keep the e-locker. An LSD like True-Trac, isn't an option for me. With any luck, this one will hang in there at least long enough until air lockers are available.

My truck is lifted with 35" tires, so I hope I don't get any flack from the dealer or Nissan about this. I'll let you know how it goes.

Regards,

John

P's Titan · Nov 2, 2006

John Harden said:
Details of my truck are in my tag line, but suffice to say it just wen BANG at 15,000 miles. I can't help but notice that looking at the diff failure spreadsheet posted on this forum shows this to be the average mileage for when they first go. 4X4 with E-Locker, so no surprise there.

Truck is off at a custom fab shop having rock sliders put on and owner calls to tell me rear end is popping and grinding a little when they pull the truck in and out of their garage. Today they call to say it just grenaded and the drive shaft just spins when you rev the motor. This is a great shop, real pro's so I doubt they were doing anything stupid with the truck.

My dealership says the new ones for my model are "upgraged", so I take that to mean they're the new, 4 ring & pinion type. Only time will tell if it'll hang in there.

I mainly use my truck for offroading, so I really want to keep the e-locker. An LSD like True-Trac, isn't an option for me. With any luck, this one will hang in there at least long enough until air lockers are available.

My truck is lifted with 35" tires, so I hope I don't get any flack from the dealer or Nissan about this. I'll let you know how it goes.

Regards,

John

If this is your first failure ( which is sounds like ) dealers won't give much flak. I think they get irriated at the multiples when they see how the truck has been abused.

Good luck!!

EVO8 · Nov 3, 2006

Gotta pay to play!

gyrate · Nov 3, 2006

has to be the elocker or possibly the 4x4.

how many 4x2 have lost a diff?

Toomnymods · Nov 3, 2006

e-lockers suck get rid of it and get the detroit trutrac ask some 4x4 guys here they are bulletproof.. after 80-100 tire roasting burnouts at the track and i still havent hurt mine yet.. when i called detroit they assured me that my truck would never have enough torque or hp to hurt it.. they said sumthing like 1200hp capable..

AgTitan06 · Nov 3, 2006

that sucks. I don't think they could prove a lift caused the diff to explode.

Vector · Nov 3, 2006

I am sure you have been asked this already, but could you please file your failure with NHTSA in the sticky at the top of this forum.

We would really appreciate you doing that for the rest of the Titan owners.

Thanks

gyrate · Nov 3, 2006

Toomnymods said:
e-lockers suck get rid of it and get the detroit trutrac ask some 4x4 guys here they are bulletproof.. after 80-100 tire roasting burnouts at the track and i still havent hurt mine yet.. when i called detroit they assured me that my truck would never have enough torque or hp to hurt it.. they said sumthing like 1200hp capable..

those are around 600$ right?

how hard is it to put in because i am tired of doing burnouts whenver the rear wheels aren't level...

Toomnymods · Nov 3, 2006

mine was 540.00 with new carrier bearings, also get the ring seals if your rear end has more than 10-12k on it.. this mod was the best mod ive done by far till i added the nitrous kit to my truck, but both work so well in unison!, lol
call west coast differentials, they will hook you up with everything you need.. install ran about 200.. also make sure you replace the fluid with synthetic 75w-140

BKW · Nov 3, 2006

John Harden said:
Details of my truck are in my tag line, but suffice to say it just wen BANG at 15,000 miles. I can't help but notice that looking at the diff failure spreadsheet posted on this forum shows this to be the average mileage for when they first go. 4X4 with E-Locker, so no surprise there.

Truck is off at a custom fab shop having rock sliders put on and owner calls to tell me rear end is popping and grinding a little when they pull the truck in and out of their garage. Today they call to say it just grenaded and the drive shaft just spins when you rev the motor. This is a great shop, real pro's so I doubt they were doing anything stupid with the truck.

My dealership says the new ones for my model are "upgraged", so I take that to mean they're the new, 4 ring & pinion type. Only time will tell if it'll hang in there.

I mainly use my truck for offroading, so I really want to keep the e-locker. An LSD like True-Trac, isn't an option for me. With any luck, this one will hang in there at least long enough until air lockers are available.

My truck is lifted with 35" tires, so I hope I don't get any flack from the dealer or Nissan about this. I'll let you know how it goes.

Regards,

John

I'm a bit confused here...isn't the Tru Trac a clutch type limited slip? So what is the E-lock...something like a Detroit Locker?

Toomnymods · Nov 3, 2006

no the e-locker is made from dana and it has failed on prob hundreds of 4x4's it sucks dana really didnt do thier research when developing it..

John Harden · Nov 3, 2006

I think there may be some confusion here. The e-locker components on Titan's are not what is failing. Its the spider gears as has been reported numerous times. For some reason they fail on Titan's with the e-locker, but noone knows why. Some have guessed that it could be folks are stressing them a lot offroad. I sure stressed the heck out of mine since it's been offroad just about as much as on.

The TrueTrac may be great for burnouts (though why would you want to do that?) or maybe even Pre-Running, but is of little use off-road. Here, you need a locker. So, if an LSD is what you want, go for it, but don't claim it to be great for offroading and "better than a locker" because it is not. Its better than nothing, but sure ain't a locker.

Also reported numerous times is the fact that Nissan modified the rears for 4X4's with e-locker, changing them to 4 pinion sometime this spring or summer. My new one will be of this type.

Let's see how these hold out as the mid year produced 06 and all 07 4X4 Titans with E-locker will have the 4 pinion rear ends. All other Titans get the original, though I have heard they may have made some changes there, but that has not been confirmed. The 4 pinion has been confirmed by folks who have opened it up to see.

If these new ones do start to fail, we'll hopefully have an aftermarket locker available to us for at least the rear. Having one for the front also would be awesome. Looks like we'll just have to wait.

Regards,

John

jaho1979 · Nov 3, 2006

John Harden said:
The TrueTrac may be great for burnouts (though why would you want to do that?) or maybe even Pre-Running, but is of little use off-road. Here, you need a locker. So, if an LSD is what you want, go for it, but don't claim it to be great for offroading and "better than a locker" because it is not. Its better than nothing, but sure ain't a locker.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. The Tru-Trac is a very tight limited slip and works very well off-road. I think Austin said it will even keep both tires going when one is airborn. I do agree that a locker is superior, but the Tru-trac is very good off-road, especially when combined with the ALBS (or whatever it is).

Toomnymods · Nov 3, 2006

works awesome for towing as well lots of people claim they can pull thier boats up very steep inclines at a boat ramp and neither tire will slip.. it isnt good just for tire burnouts, im just saying that no matter what punishment you do to it it doesnt fail like the stock titan diff and spider gears do.. this lsd locker replaces all the junk dana components which are prone to failure

here's the brochure on it take a look

http://www.detroitlocker.com/DT.htm#

John Harden · Nov 3, 2006

To be fair, I should probably modify my statement about the TrueTrack (or any other) LSD. I said they are of little use off-road, then also said they are better than nothing.

More accurately, an LSD will definitely provide some torque to a stuck wheel versus sending all torque to the free spinning one like an open diff would. How effective this is depends on the bias ratio and a host of other things, such as how much braking you apply to maximize the potential of the LSD. So, it is definitely useful offroad and MUCH better than having a straight open diff.

What I was really trying to convey is it is not a locker and will never have the same level of effectiveness as a locker. For folks into serious offroading, very few of them would choose an LSD over a Locker all other things being equal. Those who do are probably into Prerunning/Desert Racing because they have little to no use for a locker and an LSD does offer some advantages. Heck, most of those trucks are 2WD!!

For what I call "typical" offroading such as trail riding, rock crawling/climbing, etc., a locker is preferred by nearly everyone. When presented with an option of either an LSD or Locker, most every offroader I know would choose the locker. They only cost about 25% more than an LSD and work great offroad.

Look at it this way. The only reason Titan owners who go offroading might be tempted to switch out their e-locker diff for a LSD is due to worries that their stock unit might grenade like mine did. If these new rear diff's coming out from Nissan perform as expected, there's no reason to switch to an LSD if your intent is offroading.

Make sense?

Regards,

John

Toomnymods · Nov 3, 2006

forgot the add the detroit lsd isn't a clutch type so it's completely silent, it uses helical gears..

John Harden · Nov 3, 2006

BKW, the True Trac is a Limited Slip Differential that uses helical gears to distribute torque to both rear wheels. It's effectiveness varies depending on condition, but all in all, it's a pretty well made unit. Detroit's web site explains it in detail.

The E-Locker we are referring to is the Electronically activated rear differential locker that is an option from Nissan and some other manufacturers and after market suppliers for 4WD trucks. It uses an electronically activated solenoid to mechanically lock the rear differential, thereby equally distributing torque to both wheels.

Air lockers from ARB, Detroit, or others are exactly the same thing, except they activate using compressed air. Both are activated by the driver pushing a button. What's slick about the E-locker version, which is the latest thing out there on the street, is it doesn't require a compressed air source and there's no worries about a damaged or ruptured air line. Air lockers require you to either have an onboard compressor, compressed gas cylinder, or both (ideally both).

Mercedes, Land Rover and some other manufacturers use E-Lockers and I believe Dodge does as well.

In either case, lockers are typically used in pretty hard core off-roading or when you get your rear end stuck. On the E-locker version it will only activate when the truck is in 4LO, so it's designed for very slow moving such as rock crawling or very low traction situations. Push the button and your mild mannered Titan becomes a slow moving tank that is very tough to stop.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

John

BKW · Nov 4, 2006

John Harden said:
BKW, the True Trac is a Limited Slip Differential that uses helical gears to distribute torque to both rear wheels. It's effectiveness varies depending on condition, but all in all, it's a pretty well made unit. Detroit's web site explains it in detail.

The E-Locker we are referring to is the Electronically activated rear differential locker that is an option from Nissan and some other manufacturers and after market suppliers for 4WD trucks. It uses an electronically activated solenoid to mechanically lock the rear differential, thereby equally distributing torque to both wheels.

Air lockers from ARB, Detroit, or others are exactly the same thing, except they activate using compressed air. Both are activated by the driver pushing a button. What's slick about the E-locker version, which is the latest thing out there on the street, is it doesn't require a compressed air source and there's no worries about a damaged or ruptured air line. Air lockers require you to either have an onboard compressor, compressed gas cylinder, or both (ideally both).

Mercedes, Land Rover and some other manufacturers use E-Lockers and I believe Dodge does as well.

In either case, lockers are typically used in pretty hard core off-roading or when you get your rear end stuck. On the E-locker version it will only activate when the truck is in 4LO, so it's designed for very slow moving such as rock crawling or very low traction situations. Push the button and your mild mannered Titan becomes a slow moving tank that is very tough to stop.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

John

Thanks....

Back in the 60's I campaigned a 1962 Galaxie 406 4 speed around the various dragstrips in SoCal (all now gone...San Fernando, Lyons and OC). The rear end of choice was the standard Ford 9 incher with 456-1 gears and a Detroit Locker...My tow vehicle was a 65 F100 V8 with the 9" LS (clutch) diff.

The locker was great for straight ahead performance...but blew up..shattering the rear end in the process...when I decided to try road racing at Willow Springs.

My fellow Ford geeks laughed..."stay away from that locker...they are not designed for road courses."

So...why is Nissan using a DL style rear end...which is a geared setup...prone to failure in anything other than straight ahead situations?

BTW...the clutch packed LS rear end in the 65 pickup has never been touched in 41 years...and 186,000 miles.

The first limited slip differential (clutch type) available on passenger cars and light trucks was offered as an option in 1956 on the Studebaker Golden Hawk...the rear end was...a (Dana) Spicer 44.

Toxman · Nov 4, 2006

John Harden said:
Let's see how these hold out as the mid year produced 06 and all 07 4X4 Titans with E-locker will have the 4 pinion rear ends. All other Titans get the original, though I have heard they may have made some changes there, but that has not been confirmed. The 4 pinion has been confirmed by folks who have opened it up to see.

John

The 4 pinion spider gear was a 2006 model upgrade (not just mid-year). All 2006 models with the e-locker have it. That is probably why there have been very few failures with the 2006 models. The replacement axle assembly that went into my 2004 in the fall of 2005 (2006 axle assembly) has the 4 pinion spider. I think Nissan has quietly solved this problem. If you have a 2004-2005 model then its the luck of the draw at this point

KABOOM!! - Another Diff Grenades

John Harden

P's Titan

EVO8

gyrate

Toomnymods

AgTitan06

Vector

gyrate

Toomnymods

BKW

Toomnymods

John Harden

jaho1979

Toomnymods

John Harden

Toomnymods

John Harden

BKW

Toxman

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities