PRG saws or donahoes?

CL 8 2WD · Jul 5, 2007

swarren1 said:
Huh? ....
1. I hate rake so with the 1" Deavers and Chaos shackles, 2.75" front lift, and there is still a bit of rake.
2. My suspension is very smooth, and my center of gravity is way lower than any bracket lift.
3. Greg gives more than "options". He designed and has sold many of his 4" Performance Packages. These are kits.
4. No, the bump stops are as shown in the second package down on the page. http://www.prgproducts.com/titan_performance.php
5. Lots of people notch coil buckets. For an extra $550 or so, the key benefit is more lift with less preload.
6. Untrue. Most 35s are closer to 35". Where do you come up with this? Much easier to find a 35" for the off road rims than a 34".
7. Talk to DRE and maybe learn something.
8. Of course a PRG mid travel setup will be better at 2x the cost, plus glass fenders, paint, etc. makes it 2.5x more.

Anyhow, talk to Greg and convince him his 4" Performance Package isn't the best method for a 2.75" to 3.75" on a 4wd Titan, at anywhere close to it's price. Talk with the engineers at Donahoe, and convince them their coilovers are not designed specifically to be height adjustable. Good luck.

1.Then don't lift the rear. AGAIN the point I was trying to make was.And not about your truck.Both DR and SAW coil over shocks work better without a lot of preload on the coil spring
2.Again the point I was trying to make was If a person wanted a lift with little to no preload on the coilover then a braket lift with the related PRG specific shock would be the way to go.How ever now with the mid travel kit available,I would prefer that.That is the way I am going but will most likely get the SAW's for 1" more travel.For ME Its about the way the suspension works and not so much about lift.
3.He try's to give the customer what they want within there budget.Everybody wants something different and different budgets.If I had a 4X4 I would not get a bracket lift I would get, am getting the mid travel kit.I like the prerunner look and performance.Both taken from desert long coarse racing.Thats what Im into and It just so happens that Greg is also.If he wasn't I would not have done business with him,or just some barney peddling lift kits.
4.O.....K. The bump stop has NOTHING to do with the preload on the coilover.How ever the 5/8" spacer DOES.It gives 1 1/4" of lift without preloading at all.
5.AGAIN HOW ARE THESE RELATED.With a coilover THE ONLY WAY to get lift is to preload it.Tighten the ring, Preload the coilover = more lift.You can get more lift with less preload by flipping the top mounting bracket(DR's ONLY) But that still leaves the suspension closer to full droop just setting there.And because this is so, the tubular upper arm that normally has more clearance from the coil bucket now is coming in contact with it.So now you have to modify the coil bucket for clearance.
6.I have 35's, BRAND NEW.they measure 34", The nitto muds I had measured 34"- 34" and change.
7.I will and I do.
8.Thats Right, Ill be doing some side jobs.Two days work and Ill have them.
9.AGAIN THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS,IMO THE COILOVERS IN QUESTION WORK BETTER WITH LESS PRE-LOAD. NOT the best method for a 2.75" to 3.75" lift on A 4X4.

Derwud · Jul 5, 2007

So if you want lift with SAW or DR's, maybe you should be asking Greg or the Vendor for a little longer spring, which would give you lift, without pre-load.

CL 8 2WD · Jul 5, 2007

Derwud said:
So if you want lift with SAW or DR's, maybe you should be asking Greg or the Vendor for a little longer spring, which would give you lift, without pre-load.

What is happening here.The point I am trying to make is.I have found the coilover shocks I have DR'S work better with less preload.I have a 2WD and have 4" CST spindles and TC arms, I have had the DR'S preloaded for more lift and then I backed them off.And IMO they work better with less preload.Better ride on the street,better dampening off road.All of the above.

rynomx785 · Jul 5, 2007

I understand what your saying Bechlyf. Thats why im getting glass fenders and taking some more preload off.:cheers:

NorCal 4x4 · Jul 5, 2007

BECHLYF said:
1.Then don't lift the rear. AGAIN the point I was trying to make was.And not about your truck.Both DR and SAW coil over shocks work better without a lot of preload on the coil spring

In my opinion they work fine for a mild lift, and they are designed for this.
You like your DRs better without any preload ... if I had 4" of spindle lift mine would be set for 0" lift too. But this does not change the fact that they are engineered to adjust for ride height. Would I want 3" of preload on mine? No, that is why I bought the 4" Performance Package.

Your statement "Uh no. coilovers are designed for DAMPENING AND SUSPENSION SET UP(how the vehicle handles). And are being used for lifting." is simply BS in the case of the height adjustable offering from DRE and SAW.

BECHLYF said:
2.Again the point I was trying to make was If a person wanted a lift with little to no preload on the coilover then a braket lift with the related PRG specific shock would be the way to go.How ever now with the mid travel kit available,I would prefer that.That is the way I am going but will most likely get the SAW's for 1" more travel.For ME Its about the way the suspension works and not so much about lift.

Yes. If someone with a 4x4 was willing to accept the 4" Rancho's 5.5" of lift so they could have no preload that would do it. IMO, a 4x4 with the 4" Performance Package with the DRs' preload set to 1.75" of lift, plus the 1" from Greg's custom spacer, or the SAWs set for 2.75" of lift, via their height adjustment collars, will be a better setup, have a lower center of gravity, and be very smooth off road, and handle more like a sports car on road, (than it would with a 5.5" bracket lift and no preload).

I have my BFG AT KO set at 47 lbs. and drive some very poor roads and this set up is smooth, and is much more stable than a 5.5" lift, even if it would be slightly smoother. This is true on higher speed dirt roads as well.

BECHLYF said:
3.He try's to give the customer what they want within there budget.Everybody wants something different and different budgets.If I had a 4X4 I would not get a bracket lift I would get, am getting the mid travel kit.I like the prerunner look and performance.Both taken from desert long coarse racing.Thats what Im into and It just so happens that Greg is also.If he wasn't I would not have done business with him,or just some barney peddling lift kits.

You said "I just saw him Sunday.He just gives options." Yes and he sells kits. He designed the 4" Performance Package to use the DREs in an application that Donahoe Racing didn't design them for. IMO, for a 4x4, this is the best way to get 2.75" to 3.75" of lift. It can't even be done with any bracket lift I know of.

The mid travel will be cool, but again out of many people's price range, and many would also have issues with the required glass or composite fenders, longer axles, etc. I wouldn't but it will be many moons before I have the money for that. My PRG'd Titan already kicks arse.

BECHLYF said:
4.O.....K. The bump stop has NOTHING to do with the preload on the coilover.How ever the 5/8" spacer DOES.It gives 1 1/4" of lift without preloading at all.

You asked! so I posted the link to the pic that showed the bump stops. They do have SOMETHING to do with the PRG 4" Performance Package. They enable the DRs to be used in this application.
For DREs used in normal/stop applications, their internal "bump stop" does the job.

BECHLYF said:
5.AGAIN HOW ARE THESE RELATED.With a coilover THE ONLY WAY to get lift is to preload it.Tighten the ring, Preload the coilover = more lift.You can get more lift with less preload by flipping the top mounting bracket(DR's ONLY) But that still leaves the suspension closer to full droop just setting there.And because this is so, the tubular upper arm that normally has more clearance from the coil bucket now is coming in contact with it.So now you have to modify the coil bucket for clearance.

No ... using 1" custom spacer along with the DRs, and external bump stop allows for lifting the same amount, with less preload. But this application requires the aftermarket upper A-arms, such as the Total Chaos, or the new PRG uppers. The DRs, do not require aftermarket upper A-arms when used in stock Titan applications.

BECHLYF said:
6.I have 35's, BRAND NEW.they measure 34", The nitto muds I had measured 34"- 34" and change.

Your experience with your tape measure on your tires doesn't mean your statement "most so called 35's are truly 34" isn't BS ... Anymore than your statement about you liking no preload meaning that the DRs/SAWs are not designed for lifting.

BECHLYF said:
7.I will and I do.

Good ... keep it up.

BECHLYF said:
8.Thats Right, Ill be doing some side jobs.Two days work and Ill have them.

Cool, sounds like you will be one of the first with Greg's kit. Post lots of Pics!

BECHLYF said:
9.AGAIN THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS,IMO THE COILOVERS IN QUESTION WORK BETTER WITH LESS PRE-LOAD. NOT the best method for a 2.75" to 3.75" lift on A 4X4.

I agree, they probably work better with less preload, but they work very well with 1.75" of preload on them too, and I've known of several with them cranked to 3" that still found them acceptable.

The main point is they are designed to be used within a range of preloads, that equate to 0" to 3" of lift. If you can't accept this, or that for a 4x4, that doesn't want a 5.5" bracket lift, or can not get a mid travel kit ... this is the best way/maybe only way to get a lift between 2.75" and 3.75", and still have way better on and off road performance than stock, I don't know else to tell you.

rynomx785 · Jul 5, 2007

hooligan said:
no one is right and no one is wrong. but the truth is coilovers with threads are designed to adjust for ride height. i.e. lift. yes, it will gradually increase in stiffness as preload is added which is why these coilovers are paired with springs of a certain spring rate. its not so black and white as some say. i could jack my SAWs to its limit and have a lower spring weight paired with it to reduce the stiffness yet i'd lose the benefits of taking a huge hit say, if i were to catch some air. there IS a balance point in which you can maximize the coilover for heighth while retaining its dampening characteristics. if the coilover HAS threads on the shock body then it IS designed for ride height, + or -

This is going nowhere. I think everybody needs to read hooligans post again and we will leave it at that. :thumbsup:

Delta15 · Jul 5, 2007

:boxing: :rofl: :rofl:

opcorn:

NorCal 4x4 · Jul 5, 2007

rynomx785 said:
This is going nowhere. I think everybody needs to read hooligans post again and we will leave it at that. :thumbsup:

I agree that BECHLYF should read h00ligans' post, but I don't believe you should try to prevent him or me from posting if we wish. If it bothers you, move on.

In my last post, I pretty much made it clear that I said all I could to convince BECHLYF, but he certainly may wish to post a rebuttal to what I stated.

You are making it awkward for him to do this. Even a moderator would probably warn us to keep it civil, but not try to close the discussion. But only if they felt we were getting agitated, but last time I looked you are just a normal member.

I don't understand this, or when people post

opcorn: on threads when people are discussing some important aspects of something that there is not universal agreement on. I'm sorry if we are upsetting you though.

Btw Delta15, I mentioned the popcorn before I saw your post. Lol

Delta15 · Jul 6, 2007

swarren1 said:
I don't understand this, or when people post opcorn: on threads when people are discussing some important aspects of something that there is not universal agreement on. I'm sorry if we are upsetting you though.

Btw Delta15, I mentioned the popcorn before I saw your post. Lol

Your not upsetting me Its alright I'm enjoying the debate just watching and enjoying

opcorn: I'm trying to decide between saws and DR"S myself. IF money were no object this is the setup I would get It was a custom job by greg

Suspension
Fabtech 6” Kit (Front & Rear)
Custom Shock Hoops (Front)
Total Chaos Upper Control Arms (Front)
Sway Away/Race Runner 2.5 Shocks w/ Reservoirs Valved by PRG (Front)
Eibach 650 lb. Springs (Front)
Sway Away Air Bumps/Hydraulic Bump Stops (Front)
PRG Billstein’s (Rear)
PRG Deaver Leaf Upgrade (Rear)
PRG Traction Bars (Offroad)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

rynomx785 · Jul 6, 2007

swarren1 said:
I agree that BECHLYF should read h00ligans' post, but I don't believe you should try to prevent him or me from posting if we wish. If it bothers you, move on.

In my last post, I pretty much made it clear that I said all I could to convince BECHLYF, but he certainly may wish to post a rebuttal to what I stated.

You are making it awkward for him to do this. Even a moderator would probably warn us to keep it civil, but not try to close the discussion. But only if they felt we were getting agitated, but last time I looked you are just a normal member.

I don't understand this, or when people post opcorn: on threads when people are discussing some important aspects of something that there is not universal agreement on. I'm sorry if we are upsetting you though.

Btw Delta15, I mentioned the popcorn before I saw your post. Lol

It doesnt bother me at all. And i am a normal member and im not preventing you from doing any thing. I very seriously doubt that I made Bechlyf feel to awkward to reply to your post. Im sure hes probably just busy doing something else. I just realized after your last post that hooligans post made a lot sense and should have settled this a long time ago. I will admit I should have minded my own business and let the debate go on becuase I was enjoying it too.

opcorn: let the debate begin again.

rynomx785 · Jul 6, 2007

hey delta, who did the fab work for your shock hoops?

Delta15 · Jul 6, 2007

rynomx785 said:
hey delta, who did the fab work for your shock hoops?

This is not mine this belongs to another member on this forum he's trying to sell it. IF I had the money this is what I would get only a dream lol!! He said PRG Greg did the work.

Check it out

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/buy-sell/39807-lifted-titan-4-sale.html

rynomx785 · Jul 6, 2007

Nice truck. Hes got a little bit of money tied up in it! lol Thats crazy ive never heard of someone shipping a truck to get it lifted.

kartman · Jul 6, 2007

swarren1 said:
5. Lots of people notch coil buckets. For an extra $550 or so, the key benefit is more lift with less preload.
.

Dead wrong. Arms provide no lift of anykind. The give you more droop.

NorCal 4x4 · Jul 6, 2007

kartman said:
Dead wrong. Arms provide no lift of anykind. The give you more droop.

No. I didn't say they provide lift ... but in the case of the PRG 4" Performance Package they allow the DR coilovers to be used with the PRG custom spacer, allowing more lift for a given amount of preload. Normally DRs don't require aftermarket uppers, but with this kit, they do. So they enable more lift in this case, but don't provide it.

CL 8 2WD · Jul 6, 2007

In my opinion they work fine for a mild lift, and they are designed for this.
You like your DRs better without any preload ... if I had 4" of spindle lift mine would be set for 0" lift too. But this does not change the fact that they are engineered to adjust for ride height. Would I want 3" of preload on mine? No, that is why I bought the 4" Performance Package.

I stand corrected,I just spoke to Greg and he said the adjustment is for ride height.He also said the spring rate would be the same.HOW EVER he also stated that in the upper to maxed out adjustment there is a change in spring tension and there is loss of wheel travel.So I guess its back to this.

Ride Height is the height of the vehicle standing still on level ground. Ride height for high speed desert applications usually vary from 30% to 50%. Ride height for slow speed rock crawler applications usually vary from 50% to 70%.

For Tech Room calculators Ride Height (RH) is expressed as percentage of total wheel travel that equals to droop travel. For example if you have 10 inches of travel and you want your ride height to be such that shock compresses 6 inches and extends 4 inches from stand still, then your Ride Height would be 40%. This also means the shock will compress 40% of its travel to support the weight of the vehicle.

I did a search and Kartman stated the suspension cycles 8.5" to 9" with the DR's so I think Im set at about 50% ride height. Who knows if I hit a jump at the So.Cal. off road meet and bottom out too easily.I might have to crank em down a little.
Also makes this is true.

Coilovers are designed for DAMPENING AND SUSPENSION SET UP(how the vehicle handles)

In other words, I will be doing this type of driving so I will adjust my ride height to 35% might hit that big jump today.Vs I'm gonna get 4" of lift crank.crank.

Yes. If someone with a 4x4 was willing to accept the 4" Rancho's 5.5" of lift so they could have no preload that would do it. IMO, a 4x4 with the 4" Performance Package with the DRs' preload set to 1.75" of lift, plus the 1" from Greg's custom spacer, or the SAWs set for 2.75" of lift, via their height adjustment collars, will be a better setup, have a lower center of gravity, and be very smooth off road, and handle more like a sports car on road, (than it would with a 5.5" bracket lift and no preload).

First of all I don't know where your getting RANCHO from,I never said rancho and if I had to have a bracket lift it would be a CST kit. Do you love Rancho? then why don't you marry them.lol
Now with my new Information from Greg.My pick for the Titan 4X4 would be.
The PRG upper arms/ Sway-a-Way coilovers/ smallest Deaver lift pack(GET RID OF THE OVERLOAD/ PRG Traction bars / Glass fenders to run 35's for added ground clearance AND to set up the suspension up for type of driving and terrain rather than just making room for bigger tires.

You asked! so I posted the link to the pic that showed the bump stops. They do have SOMETHING to do with the PRG 4" Performance Package. They enable the DRs to be used in this application.
For DR's used in normal/stop applications, their internal "bump stop" does the job.

You stated the bump stop added to less preload.Its a bump stop, as you preload the coilover the lower arm moves further away from the spot where it makes contact.And as far as the DR's having one I don't know.But I do know it has a internal droop stop,That is why we don't need a limiting straps.

Your experience with your tape measure on your tires doesn't mean your statement "most so called 35's are truly 34" isn't BS ... Anymore than your statement about you liking no preload meaning that the DRs/SAWs are not designed for lifting.

Im starting a new thread,How tall are your 35's, We will see.Ive had tons of 35's and to my recollection non of them where truly 35 INCHES IN DIAMETER.

I agree, they probably work better with less preload, but they work very well with 1.75" of preload on them too, and I've known of several with them cranked to 3" that still found them acceptable.

The main point is they are designed to be used within a range of preloads, that equate to 0" to 3" of lift. If you can't accept this, or that for a 4x4, that doesn't want a 5.5" bracket lift, or can not get a mid travel kit ... this is the best way/maybe only way to get a lift between 2.75" and 3.75", and still have way better on and off road performance than stock, I don't know else to tell you.

I AGREE WITH THIS.

Ride Height is the height of the vehicle standing still on level ground. Ride height for high speed desert applications usually vary from 30% to 50%. Ride height for slow speed rock crawler applications usually vary from 50% to 70%.

For Tech Room calculators Ride Height (RH) is expressed as percentage of total wheel travel that equals to droop travel. For example if you have 10 inches of travel and you want your ride height to be such that shock compresses 6 inches and extends 4 inches from stand still, then your Ride Height would be 40%. This also means the shock will compress 40% of its travel to support the weight of the vehicle.

Adjusting ride height for type of driving or terrain application VS just lift.To be in the sweet spot of the suspension parameters.

CL 8 2WD · Jul 6, 2007

swarren1 said:
No. I didn't say they provide lift ... but in the case of the PRG 4" Performance Package they allow the DR coilovers to be used with the PRG custom spacer, allowing more lift for a given amount of preload. Normally DRs don't require aftermarket uppers, but with this kit, they do. So they enable more lift in this case, but don't provide it.

LIFT LIFT LIFT UPPER ARMS PROVIDE MORE SUSPENSION TRAVEL.PERIOD.AND THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT.

NorCal 4x4 · Jul 6, 2007

BECHLYF said:
I stand corrected,I just spoke to Greg and he said the adjustment is for ride height.He also said the spring rate would be the same.HOW EVER he also stated that in the upper to maxed out adjustment there is a change in spring tension and there is loss of wheel travel.So I guess its back to this.

I did a search and Kartman stated the suspension cycles 8.5" to 9" with the DR's so I think Im set at about 50% ride height. Who knows if I hit a jump at the So.Cal. off road meet and bottom out too easily.I might have to crank em down a little.
Also makes this is true.

In other words, I will be doing this type of driving so I will adjust my ride height to 35% might hit that big jump today.Vs I'm gonna get 4" of lift crank.crank.

Cool

BECHLYF said:
First of all I don't know where your getting RANCHO from,I never said rancho and if I had to have a bracket lift it would be a CST kit. Do you love Rancho? then why don't you marry them.lol
Now with my new Information from Greg.My pick for the Titan 4X4 would be.
The PRG upper arms/ Sway-a-Way coilovers/ smallest Deaver lift pack(GET RID OF THE OVERLOAD/ PRG Traction bars / Glass fenders to run 35's for added ground clearance AND to set up the suspension up for type of driving and terrain rather than just making room for bigger tires.

You stated the bump stop added to less preload.Its a bump stop, as you preload the coilover the lower arm moves further away from the spot where it makes contact.And as far as the DR's having one I don't know.But I do know it has a internal droop stop,That is why we don't need a limiting straps.

Rancho and I are through, we broke it off years ago. Lol
No, the reason I mention Rancho is because of your suggestion of a bracket lift, and their bracket lift sans their crap shocks, gives the least lift of all of the ones I know of. They call it a 4" but I think it is 5.5", whereas PC is 6", FT at least that, and CST the tallest, (from what I've heard, and I don't listen that close to bracket stuff).

[

BECHLYF said:
]You stated the bump stop added to less preload

BS!
Don't quote me on things I didn't say. What I said was that the way that Greg's kit works with the spacer and TC uppers, it necessitates the use of an external bumps stop, without it if I remember correctly, something bad will happen to the internal one.

BECHLYF said:
Im starting a new thread,How tall are your 35's, We will see.Ive had tons of 35's and to my recollection non of them where truly 35 INCHES IN DIAMETER.

Only trouble with that is most people don't break out a tape measure and measure their unmounted tires. Once the Titan's weight is sitting on them, they'll lose at least an inch in diameter, and with different models, rims, and tire inflation this won't be information that is usable.

I think the best we can do is look at the tire's spec sheet.
But at least BFG states that their specs are the average, so some are bigger and some are smaller:

BFGoodrich said:
1. The dimensions shown are average tire design values for tires measured on specified measuring rim widths. Some tires may vary from this value by +/- 3% of the section height (affecting overall diameter), and +/- 4% of the section width.
2. Section width varies approximately 0.2" (5mm) for every 0.5" change in rim width.

BECHLYF said:
I AGREE WITH THIS.

Adjusting ride height for type of driving or terrain application VS just lift.To be in the sweet spot of the suspension parameters.

Cool

BECHLYF said:
LIFT LIFT LIFT UPPER ARMS PROVIDE MORE SUSPENSION TRAVEL.PERIOD.AND THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT.

They are part of the system that Greg designed as the 4" Performance Package, allowing more lift than the DRs were designed to provide.

PERIOD.AND THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT. Lol

DezertRunner823 · Jul 6, 2007

swarren1 said:
They are part of the system that Greg designed as the 4" Performance Package, allowing more lift than the DRs were designed to provide.

PERIOD.AND THATS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT. Lol

:lol: oh man!

in the end it comes down to personal preference, how it looks, heighth, travel, etc. some like it low, mid, high, more travel, less travel, slow rebound, fast rebound, etc, etc, etc. LOL!!! what's really cool is going with a high end coilover which gives one the ability to adjust or change to adapt to the situation or their preference.

NorCal 4x4 · Jul 6, 2007

hooligan said:
:lol: oh man!

in the end it comes down to personal preference, how it looks, heighth, travel, etc. some like it low, mid, high, more travel, less travel, slow rebound, fast rebound, etc, etc, etc. LOL!!! what's really cool is going with a high end coilover which gives one the ability to adjust or change to adapt to the situation or their preference.

Lol. If everyone would've just read your previous post, my fingers wouldn't hurt.

PRG saws or donahoes?

CL 8 2WD

Derwud

CL 8 2WD

rynomx785

NorCal 4x4

rynomx785

Delta15

NorCal 4x4

Delta15

rynomx785

rynomx785

Delta15

rynomx785

kartman

NorCal 4x4

CL 8 2WD

CL 8 2WD

NorCal 4x4

DezertRunner823

NorCal 4x4

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities