Good post and my point exactly.....I too think that most on here want LOUD! I don't compete and would never even consider it......"I have a life". But I invite anyone to listen to my system that thinks theirs sound good! I wouldn't say its competition quality to the lack of placement to fine tune the sound. However, I wouldn't be afraid to put it in any contest. I have a system for the pure enjoyment of the music not to impress my buddies or some nerd that thinks HE KNOWS SQ with his Diana Krall CD......LOL

 

Good post and my point exactly.....I too think that most on here want LOUD! I don't compete and would never even consider it......"I have a life". But I invite anyone to listen to my system that thinks theirs sound good! I wouldn't say its competition quality to the lack of placement to fine tune the sound. However, I wouldn't be afraid to put it in any contest. I have a system for the pure enjoyment of the music not to impress my buddies or some nerd that thinks HE KNOWS SQ with his Diana Krall CD......LOL

yes you got the point of that post perfectly. I am in perfect agreement with you . I build my audio for me. not anyone else. I personally do not care what a judge thinks anymore and i could enter any iasca sq right now and hold my own. But i have discovered i have enough trophies and all they do is sit around and collect dust.i build my systems for me to listen to and a sq system is not that great to listen to at 70 mph .

 

That's because you are the man!!!

 

That's because you are the man!!!

no you the man. once again without even discussing this we were on the same page.

 

You two are gonna need a room pretty soon.

Tech what kinda sub would you rec for your single box? I'd be pushing 400watts 4ohm 800(ish) 2ohm. I'm looking for big bang for the buck...not Lizardking pricerange!

I'd like half of my backseat back to store my crap. Oh yeah... I have the crewcab. If you need to PM me let me know.

I've got 2 12" infinity's crammed into an audio enhancer box right now (I made a mistake ordering the box, and got it for 12's I wanted 10s...but I digress) and I'm tired of the way it sounds... There is not enough space for the subs and they are too close to the floor for my liking. I'm really ok with a 10" sub if it will sound better, even if it has less of a wow factor as far as SPL is concerned.

 

I would look at the Stereo Intergrity subs.......decent bang for the buck! I would also consider the DLS Nobelium. Not as pricey as you think!

 

I don't know about needing to cut a hole in the front of the floorboard to achieve sound quality. As you know you from competing, Tech, you don't need subs (or exclusive large midbass drivers) up front to give the BUF illusion. But from the standpoint of in a truck, Titan specifically, where one literally sits on the soundstage, I see where you're coming from. I know one does not need to go that drastic but at the same time, I think the point you're trying to communicate that it's not going to be a one-drop in solution. Though it'd be nice if it always was.

Oh yeah, if I had to go drastic, I'd remold the entire freakin' POS plastic dash.

 

HAHA thats funny TX!

I dont think you can ever get perfect soundstage in a car unless its completely custom. Like those crazy ones that Alpine builds every year. They are so insane though I cant imagine driving one. I mean a speaker for a steering wheel... come on!

For those that didn't see this stuff check out the car they built this year. You can watch a slide show.

http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/fun/

I added the CDT stage front kit to my comps and it sounds pretty good to me. I think it helps fill the gap between total custom and a stock interior. Its the UP 519 kit.

http://www.cdtaudio.com/stagefront_upstage_systems.htm

 

t22, one of the guys in the video, Brent Davison, one of the custom installers is a good friend of mine and built my last two vehicles I competed with. He came a long way from Circuit City - now works at Alpine. That Imprint they built is pretty crazy. Yeah, the system is cool, but the rims is what sets that sucker off. 30inch rims - and it's not Shaq's hummer.

 

Thats cool! I watched a special on Rides for the BMW they made last year it was pretty impressive! I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the Benz.

 

you guys are funny.

 

you guys are funny.

HAHA why????

 

Yeah Steve Brown is the mastermind behind most of the alpine vehicles and he is a great guy. Really cool. The way to get perfect sound in a car is placement. you do not have to as extreme as alpine. I have built a few cars that imaged perfectly. It was all placement . And the final install was steep. Very steep. Like 4 zero steep in labor.And you know how long they stayed that way . Not even a year .

 

I dunno, having a sub in a trunk is ALOT different than firing it off the floor. I don't know where this magic 3 inches comes into play either but I know you know your stuff... Different subs should require differnet downfire depth, also should depend on the box design. Does it vent only towards the front? To the side, both? Is the subwoofer angled towards the front/ back / sides? I would imagine that sound defelcts off the floor better than it defelcts off the seat. I tried my subs on top of the seat firing up, and to ME they sound better firing at the floor with ONLY 1.5 - 2 inch mounting depth. I can understand your DB gain though firing up without the seat lifted.

I want the best imgaging I can get while keeping everything stealthed and tucked away. Which means tweeters will never have proper imaging in stock locations but, with a little T-align (covers time alignments and Fadding right to left / front to back) on my HU they sound somewhat close to as if I was driving in the center of the truck.

The easiest way to achieve SQ by what you mean, would probably be to move the drivers seat farther back and to the dead center Sceen it done somewhere online...

 

I dunno, having a sub in a trunk is ALOT different than firing it off the floor. I don't know where this magic 3 inches comes into play either but I know you know your stuff... Different subs should require differnet downfire depth, also should depend on the box design. Does it vent only towards the front? To the side, both? Is the subwoofer angled towards the front/ back / sides? I would imagine that sound defelcts off the floor better than it defelcts off the seat. I tried my subs on top of the seat firing up, and to ME they sound better firing at the floor with ONLY 1.5 - 2 inch mounting depth. I can understand your DB gain though firing up without the seat lifted.

I want the best imgaging I can get while keeping everything stealthed and tucked away. Which means tweeters will never have proper imaging in stock locations but, with a little T-align (covers time alignments and Fadding right to left / front to back) on my HU they sound somewhat close to as if I was driving in the center of the truck.

The easiest way to achieve SQ by what you mean, would probably be to move the drivers seat farther back and to the dead center Sceen it done somewhere online...

the problem with ta is it only works for one seat. i like for people to be able to sit in either seat .

 

the problem with ta is it only works for one seat. i like for people to be able to sit in either seat .

True, I'd play with placement and phasing before T/A, however, T/A front to back I did use a lot when running rear fill if the speakers are located on a back deck or far back quarter panel.

 

True, I'd play with placement and phasing before T/A, however, T/A front to back I did use a lot when running rear fill if the speakers are located on a back deck or far back quarter panel.

I'd agree if I had a regular HU, but for some reason it works like Magic on my eclipse. With 2 people in the the car your imaging can't be perfect for both...

But I can just click a button and set the TA for the passenger seat if they are really that interested (most of the time they are not). It's night and day difference for me setting from driver to passenger (at least to me). DLS tweeters are very directional so I think to get a good balance using them in the dash. It is actually a good location for them which is part of the reason I selected these (because that’s where I wanted to install them). If I put them in a-pillars I would be really concerned with imaging as the left tweeter would be very close to my left ear (and again they are very directional). I would have to get it just right and it would be allot of work. I don't care much for rear fill I just hooked some 6.5's up to the HU, you can't really hear them over the fronts anyways but there is some rear fill...

I don't understand the need to have the sub in the front of the vehicle since typically the human ear can not distinguish the location of low frequencies anyways (midbass sure subbass, not so much). If I remember there was some blind testing done on caradio.com that concluded the same, especially in a vehicle where you may have a sub in the back, but get the highest reading near the front windshield for example.

 

I'd agree if I had a regular HU, but for some reason it works like Magic on my eclipse. With 2 people in the the car your imaging can't be perfect for both...

But I can just click a button and set the TA for the passenger seat if they are really that interested (most of the time they are not). It's night and day difference for me setting from driver to passenger (at least to me). DLS tweeters are very directional so I think to get a good balance using them in the dash. It is actually a good location for them which is part of the reason I selected these (because that’s where I wanted to install them). If I put them in a-pillars I would be really concerned with imaging as the left tweeter would be very close to my left ear (and again they are very directional). I would have to get it just right and it would be allot of work. I don't care much for rear fill I just hooked some 6.5's up to the HU, you can't really hear them over the fronts anyways but there is some rear fill...

I don't understand the need to have the sub in the front of the vehicle since typically the human ear can not distinguish the location of low frequencies anyways (midbass sure subbass, not so much). If I remember there was some blind testing done on caradio.com that concluded the same, especially in a vehicle where you may have a sub in the back, but get the highest reading near the front windshield for example.

ill take the pepsi challenge anyday on the i can not hear the sub from the rear . You better have some damn good midbass up front to pull that sub up there . generally sub freq are where you are not suppose to be able to tell where they are coming from. but in the car enviroment this is not true . Jim fosgate fugured this out years ago. And about the only damn thing he figured out. LOL the reason you get a higher number on the dash has to do with how long a bass frequency wave length is.SUb freq are very long and wide.

 

ill take the pepsi challenge anyday on the i can not hear the sub from the rear . You better have some damn good midbass up front to pull that sub up there . generally sub freq are where you are not suppose to be able to tell where they are coming from. but in the car enviroment this is not true . Jim fosgate fugured this out years ago. And about the only damn thing he figured out. LOL the reason you get a higher number on the dash has to do with how long a bass frequency wave length is.SUb freq are very long and wide.

My Mids are crossed at 80 HTZ at the moment because thats where I get the best blending, but they do play down lower....My Midbass is not spectacular 6.5s DLS, but it will shake my mirrors. Sub should not be playing much Midbass anyways I cross mine over through the HU then again on the sub amp (at a higher frequency of course)... I love songs where you can hear seperate midbass notes from the subs. I dunno seems ridiculous to say you HAVE to have the sub up front to achieve SQ. I guess I'm not THAT critical.

What do yout think about Class A (or A/B) vs Class D amps for Subs? Big difference?

 

There goes tech getting all technical again. When I refer to SQ on this forum I am simply refering to good sound which is more of a layman's term. Sort of like referring to an adjustable wrench as a crescent wrench or calling a circular saw a skill saw. I think you get the picture. I have built systems using fiberglassed 8" subs up front and some 10's or 12's in the rear. It sounds amazing but I won't be going overboard on my Titan (yet). TA is not the cure-all for sound but it does serve a purpose. I added a Sony XDP-766 DSP to my SQ setup back in 1999 and it made a world of improvement. It is my favorite DSP I ever used. Anyone remember Kimber Cable?

 

My Mids are crossed at 80 HTZ at the moment because thats where I get the best blending, but they do play down lower....My Midbass is not spectacular 6.5s DLS, but it will shake my mirrors. Sub should not be playing much Midbass anyways I cross mine over through the HU then again on the sub amp (at a higher frequency of course)... I love songs where you can hear seperate midbass notes from the subs. I dunno seems ridiculous to say you HAVE to have the sub up front to achieve SQ. I guess I'm not THAT critical.

What do yout think about Class A (or A/B) vs Class D amps for Subs? Big difference?

class d runs a little cooler . but overall i cant hear a difference. i ran soundstream class a 6.0 on subs for a few years and loved them. i use a class d on everything now . due to the size difference. but if theres a sound difference i have not heard it.

 

ill take the pepsi challenge anyday on the i can not hear the sub from the rear . You better have some damn good midbass up front to pull that sub up there . generally sub freq are where you are not suppose to be able to tell where they are coming from. but in the car enviroment this is not true . Jim fosgate fugured this out years ago. And about the only damn thing he figured out. LOL the reason you get a higher number on the dash has to do with how long a bass frequency wave length is.SUb freq are very long and wide.

I agree completely tech. With my W7 facing the floor, the bass is right in front of me (and behind me). I have my fronts crossed at 120 hz with 12 db rolloff, and still plenty of mid-bass, and the sub is low passed at 100 hz with 24 db rolloff. So even though I have a small gap at 110 hz, it really sounds best this way. The MB Quart premie mids really put out some awesome mid-bass (notoriously), though the highs may not be as detailed as Focals, they're still pretty good. Plus the Focals are 3 times more what I paid for the MBQ's

 

Speaking of MBQ. Crutchfield has a killer deal on the Q's right now

http://www.audiojunkies.com/

 

I agree completely tech. With my W7 facing the floor, the bass is right in front of me (and behind me). I have my fronts crossed at 120 hz with 12 db rolloff, and still plenty of mid-bass, and the sub is low passed at 100 hz with 24 db rolloff. So even though I have a small gap at 110 hz, it really sounds best this way. The MB Quart premie mids really put out some awesome mid-bass (notoriously), though the highs may not be as detailed as Focals, they're still pretty good. Plus the Focals are 3 times more what I paid for the MBQ's

its nice to hear quart is still make good stuff. have not had any since they were bought out. But all my old competition vehicles had quart in them. quart actually sent me some really nice stuff before 94 finals as did jl. i use all dynaudio now. I may try some rainbows in the next car i build . but it will be a year or so before i do it.

Also with amount of time and detail you have put into your audio system i am sure ot sounds awesome. Im glad to see people take so much pride in their audio .I have been installing as a career for 16 years now and i could not have done it any better. :cheers:

 

Speaking of MBQ. Crutchfield has a killer deal on the Q's right now

http://www.audiojunkies.com/

nobs should not post links. lol that was funny bro when the dude called a nob on the other forum.
thanks for the link man.