Is there a correlation between the basic differential gear ratio and the gear set used for the Big Tow/Offreaod package and whether it fails?
Which Differential Fails Most?
grangertitan
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Is there a correlation between the basic differential gear ratio and the gear set used for the Big Tow/Offreaod package and whether it fails?
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The failures were on early models with under-filled rear diffs. They've happened on BT optioned trucks, non-BTd trucks, and everything in between. I think Nissan went ahaead and made the changes (1st to a synthetic 90w, then to a synthetic 140w) before actually realizing that the problems were due to underfilling the rear ends. The new fluid and better aluminum cover certainly can't hurt.grangertitan said:
My truck is an '04, built in July, Offroad with E-locker. At 1,000 miles I checked the level, it was slightly low so I topped it off. It was only a little bit low, almost not enough to mention. I hadn't towed anything with it when the rear failed at 3400 miles. It just went crunch. They never did tell me what parts actually failed, they just put in an '05 and it's been fine. I've towed heavy and long with it once.
I do feel like a new cover and synthetic oil is a bandaid. I've never had a rear fail before, and especially at this low mileage. It is just not strong enough for our truck in my opinion although the bandaid my work.
I also suspect that the E-Locker feature may be the weakest link.
Joe Cheif
I do feel like a new cover and synthetic oil is a bandaid. I've never had a rear fail before, and especially at this low mileage. It is just not strong enough for our truck in my opinion although the bandaid my work.
I also suspect that the E-Locker feature may be the weakest link.
Joe Cheif
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I have one of the first lockers, a May '04 build BT/OR pkg. No problems. I've towed several times, and have used the locker hill climbing numerous times, but never above its rated 12 mph crawl rating. I have the original steel cover and run the manual's specified 80W90 GL5 fluid, as Nissan has never appended the '04 manuals. The TSB was directed at the dealers:
http://www.nissanhelp.com/Ownership/Bulletins/Nissan/2005/NTB05-008.htm
I changed the fluid on the front and rear twice, somewhere around 2,000 and 12,000 miles. I use the Bobistheoilguy.com featured, Schaeffers 267, and the cover stays fairly cool. I've placed my hand on it and was able to keep it there a couple of minutes after towing. I have 22,000 miles on it now and plan to change the rear fluid again soon.
Btw, I had the level checked a little before the first change, and both F/R differentials were full, and the fluid looked pretty clean. I decided to play it safe and change it anyway, and I was brainwashed by the following link, especially the egg beater pic. :dunno:
http://bobistheoilguy.com/gearoiltest.htm
http://www.nissanhelp.com/Ownership/Bulletins/Nissan/2005/NTB05-008.htm
I changed the fluid on the front and rear twice, somewhere around 2,000 and 12,000 miles. I use the Bobistheoilguy.com featured, Schaeffers 267, and the cover stays fairly cool. I've placed my hand on it and was able to keep it there a couple of minutes after towing. I have 22,000 miles on it now and plan to change the rear fluid again soon.
Btw, I had the level checked a little before the first change, and both F/R differentials were full, and the fluid looked pretty clean. I decided to play it safe and change it anyway, and I was brainwashed by the following link, especially the egg beater pic. :dunno:
http://bobistheoilguy.com/gearoiltest.htm
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No failure yet
I have an '04 (8/04) with BT and tow a lot. I changed to 75W-140 Syn at 3500 mi on my own (have always preferred synthetic oils). My trailer weighs #6500 and when hitched up, my combination weighs over 13,000#. Dif temp rarely approaches 190 deg and only when pulling a long mountain grade. 15,000 miles and no issues with differential. Not even a sliver on the magnet.
It is my opinion that some of the failures were definitely caused by the underfilling of the Differential (the build sheet said put in 2.2 quarts. Since the dispenser handle is calibrated in pints, someone stopped on 2.2 pints). The rest of the failures, again my opinion, have been caused by extreme use (sometimes referred to as abuse). My Dealer has replaced exactly one (1) in a Titan (and they have sold Titans in the 100's). That owner towed a piece of construction machinery and would get stuck on muddy sites regularly. Lots of jerking and spinning to get out.
I wouldn't worry about an epidemic.
I have an '04 (8/04) with BT and tow a lot. I changed to 75W-140 Syn at 3500 mi on my own (have always preferred synthetic oils). My trailer weighs #6500 and when hitched up, my combination weighs over 13,000#. Dif temp rarely approaches 190 deg and only when pulling a long mountain grade. 15,000 miles and no issues with differential. Not even a sliver on the magnet.
It is my opinion that some of the failures were definitely caused by the underfilling of the Differential (the build sheet said put in 2.2 quarts. Since the dispenser handle is calibrated in pints, someone stopped on 2.2 pints). The rest of the failures, again my opinion, have been caused by extreme use (sometimes referred to as abuse). My Dealer has replaced exactly one (1) in a Titan (and they have sold Titans in the 100's). That owner towed a piece of construction machinery and would get stuck on muddy sites regularly. Lots of jerking and spinning to get out.
I wouldn't worry about an epidemic.
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Not the Armada's. :bye:
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On another thread here, it was stated that the failures can be attributed to the preload being set too tight. Don't know if this has been confirmed on more than one failed diff, though. We hear about all these failures, yet not much info on the point of failure. You'd think if there was a preload issue, it would've generated a TSB by now.
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Thanks....interesting test they did at BITOG. So that was the Amsoil gear lube the Shaeffers was compared to? What weight did you use in the Shaeffers...and who has the best price on it?swarren1 said:
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Both bottles look like a 80W90, Schaeffers being the 267 synthetic blend, and the Amsoil being a full synthetic GL-4, (marine for whatever reason).RockyMtnTitan said:
I use the 267 Supreme Gear Lube. A Synthetic Blend, 80W-90 that exceeds GL-5. This stuff is a paraffin base oil formula blended with synthetic base stocks, and Moly as a friction modifier. Also contains "adhesive-cohesive" additives for climbing. Good down to -22° F and up to 250° F greater than dino GL.
I had to buy a case of 12, (3 changes F/R), for ~$85 including shipping. Also, had to contact their sales rep. (mine was in CA), for you in CO, it looks like it would be: Ken Moddelmog of Greeley, CO 1-970-330-3904 kmoddelmog@msn.com (according to the Schaffer site). http://www.schaefferoil.com
However, unless you have a '04 you would be going against spec. to use this stuff, since Nissan changed the rear spec. to 75W140 full synthetic with the '05 Titans.
The lack of climbing of the full synthetic is worrisome to me, but almost everyone uses it so I'm sure full synthetics are o.k. [I do use M1 full synthetics in my Titan's engine, would definitely trust Red-line Oil, and Amsoil too, but not sure if I would try a synthetic blend engine oil from Schaeffer, as I don't see the benefit like I do in the differential: mainly the climbing and water separation-in case any gets through the vents' valve].
I'm not worried either and I don't think it's an epidemic. But there are some isolated cases.Oldfordowner said:
My truck was not used under these conditions, nor was it underfilled but for 4 0z or so, then at 1,000 miles it was topped off. I'm not easy on vehicles, yet in 23 years of driving this is the only diff that has ever failed, And it failed new. I don't know anyone who this has happened to on any make ever.
I expect this truck to hold up and perform at least as well as others I have owned, and in a major way, it did not. Now there are others on various Titan sites that like to do an occasional burnout like me and have had no problems so far. Not many diffs blew up, but more were replaced for overheating, humming noise, burnt paint. So maybe heat is the big issue, but changing to synth, more capacity, and better heat transfer is still a bandaid substitute for a diff that can handle the torque.
I'm not worried about wether the fix works or not. It's under warranty.
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I think band aid would be correct if our differentials have a fundamental design flaw, which isn't likely. Otherwise there would be many more people experiencing what you and a few others have. I think it is more likely poor manufacturing, assembly or heat treating of parts in some of the early production runs.
In some cases it may have been guys with lockers turning on pavement, etc. and of course the really low fluid levels on some.
Obviously if your company's differentials are blistering amid reports of blown ones, you will do something about it, for political reasons if nothing else.
But there are just too many people drag racing, hill climbing, towing, and off-road racing these trucks for it to be something a band aid will cover up.
People that have 4 blown diffs. either Nissan uses there production rejects as replacement parts, or there was something out of wack with the guy's truck causing this.
In some cases it may have been guys with lockers turning on pavement, etc. and of course the really low fluid levels on some.
Obviously if your company's differentials are blistering amid reports of blown ones, you will do something about it, for political reasons if nothing else.
But there are just too many people drag racing, hill climbing, towing, and off-road racing these trucks for it to be something a band aid will cover up.
People that have 4 blown diffs. either Nissan uses there production rejects as replacement parts, or there was something out of wack with the guy's truck causing this.
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swarren1 said:
Thanks for the info and links on the Shaeffers. I have an '04, but switched over to the M1 75W-140 in the rear, and 75W-90 M1 in the front about 11,000 miles ago. It looks like Shaeffers makes a #167 Moly Synthetic Gear Lube 75W-140. It is synthetic, so do you think it would suffer from the same lack of "climbing" found with other full synth gear oils, like the Amsoil?
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