Good find.

I hate the fact that auto manufacturers do not use standard electrical items in their designs. Why do we have to have 3 dozen different kinds of relays in one vehicle? A fuel pump relay does the same task as a horn relay, as a headlight relay. Why can't they just use Bosch-type relays that are available everywhere? It would keep their parts costs down, too.

 

Their costs are down. They want to keep your costs up.

 

Just ordered 3.

The info discovered by Titan Blue indicates that this diode protected relay has a shorter service life than an ordinary relay, apparently because the diode coil emf protection slows opening of the contacts when the truck is turned off.

Accordingly, I'm thinking maybe this is a maintenance item, like changing your ATF or antifreeze. Perhaps changing this in advance of failure may be a good idea to save stalling in traffic, missing appts., cooking your cats by dumping unburned fuel trying to start the truck.

After I swap, I may slice the 2004 OEM one from my truck open to see what the relay contacts look like.

 

Check out the relay data sheet:

Cautions regarding the protection element:

2. Part numbers with diodes. These relays use a diode in the coil surge protection element. Therefore, the release time is slower and the working life might be shorter compared to part numbers without protection elements and part numbers with resistors. Be sure to use only after evaluating under actual load conditions. <-- ???

this diode protected relay has a shorter service life than an ordinary relay, apparently because the diode coil emf protection slows opening of the contacts when the truck is turned off.

 

This Relay is an electronics industry standard design. It is a "35 Amp Micro-ISO Automotive Relay, CM Series".

Cost to Nissan is less than $2. I've seen same size Relay used on other brands. I wish I had looked this up a couple years ago. I'd seen this series of relays in the course of my regular work for years, but never connected it with our needs until a couple months ago.

Just yesterday, I installed a "Weatherproof" Relay and Harness on a Generator. Hefty Part, and hefty Price of about $16 for the Bosche Relay and $24 for the Weatherproof base/harness made by Hella. Sure looks better though.

 

This Relay is an electronics industry standard design. It is a "35 Amp Micro-ISO Automotive Relay, CM Series".

Cost to Nissan is less than $2. I've seen same size Relay used on other brands. I wish I had looked this up a couple years ago. I'd seen this series of relays in the course of my regular work for years, but never connected it with our needs until a couple months ago.

Courtesy Parts online relay prices:

Nissan Parts, NISMO and Nissan Accessories - Courtesyparts.com

They certainly don't want the average customer to be able to pick up a common relay for $2. Solution: don't list the mfg or original part number, make up a Nissan part number, multiply price by 10 to 20x.

 

Great find/solution TitanBlue. Have you done any testing to see the maximum amps that passes through the relay?....How close to max. rating?

 

No I haven't. I do not have a Load Bank to do such testing. But, I trust Panasonics Engineers to know far better than I. Someone could remove the relay and rig up an Ammeter inline, to measure current draw, but I would never bother doing that on my Titan. 4 Pieces of wire to extend the four QD Tabs and a Multimeter are all that is needed. But potentially 20 Amps is pushing the limit on my Fluke 117 I have at home. I believe my Fluke is rated 10 Amps, 20 Amp momentary.

I originally was going to rig up an off board Relay with commonly available parts from a Pep Boys, but this solution was better and much cheaper. Now, to see what everyone's results are with the correct relay available.

I'll be looking into what Relays are used on the new version IPDM and report on that. That'll be a few more weeks probably. We have a Mod Meet coming up soon for the MVP Titans, and I will learn some more there.

 

Nice info TB. I'm not knowledgeable about electrical stuff, it's nice know someone who is. Haven't run into any IPDM issues so far, but it's just a matter of time. Going to buy two just in case. Thank you bro'.

L

 

I am going to "stickie" this thread.

To make it a one source "How To" might I suggest someone that is so inclined might want to do a Photo "How To" regarding this relay's location for ease in replacement for those who are not mechanically gifted. (In this thread).

 

The ECM relay circuit is fused at 20 amps, so I don't see a problem with exceeding relay rating. Also, the diode is not seeing any substantial current, unless you f things up and put reverse polarity on the relay coil.

In looking at the diagram in the service manual (2004 page PG-23), the throttle control motor relay and fuel pump relay are also diode protected (is that why so many fuel pumps are getting changed?)

And are those the same Digikey part number, Titan Blue? If so, I'm glad I ordered three of them!

 

The ECM relay circuit is fused at 20 amps, so I don't see a problem with exceeding relay rating. Also, the diode is not seeing any substantial current, unless you f things up and put reverse polarity on the relay coil.

In looking at the diagram in the service manual (2004 page PG-23), the throttle control motor relay and fuel pump relay are also diode protected (is that why so many fuel pumps are getting changed?)

And are those the same Digikey part number, Titan Blue? If so, I'm glad I ordered three of them!

Also; 2005 page PG-25

 

All of the non-ECU Relays on the IPDM are the same as each other, different from the ECU. The ECU Relay is unique from everything I've seen so far in my IPDM. They do not have the Diode protection as the motors are not as sensitive to the milliseconds of a high voltage spike like computers are. I bought 6 Non-Diode Relays already, just to be certain of everything, and have spares for the rest of the system. I'll look into it some more to see what you are looking at in the manual. I have pics of the IPDM to check.

That Digi-Key P/N is 255-2183-ND for the non-ECU Relay.

I still need to order my ECU Relay now. Digi-Key will be shipping ECU Relays in early March as of now.

 

All of the non-ECU Relays on the IPDM are the same as each other, different from the ECU. They do not have the Diode protection as the motors are not as sensitive to the milliseconds of a high voltage spike like computers are. I bought 6 of those Relays already, just to be certain of everything, and have spares for the rest of the system.

That Digi-Key P/N is 255-2183-ND for the non-ECU Relay.

I still need to order my ECU Relay now. Digi-Key will be shipping ECU Relays in early March as of now.

What year IPDM did you look at? 2004 Service Manual is showing diodes.

 

2006. I'm going to open my 2006 manual now to see what is says, and check the pics I made.

Those 2 Relays are not located on the IPDM, unless hidden on back side. My IPDM matches your 2004, confirmed by my Service Manual and my Pics. You are correct in that they are Diode Protected Version Relays. I don't know P/N or where they are located though.

Here are the 9 Relays mounted on the IPDM:

5 Relays across Top, Left to Right-
Starter, Heated Mirror, Not Used, Cooling Fan, Ignition

4 Relays across Bottom, Left (Notched Corner) to Right-
Rear Window Defogger, ECM, Headlamp Low, Front Fog Lamp

So, I now have a new hobby. Locating all the other Relays, and Digi-Key P/N. I'll get right on this. 30" of snow on the hood right now though..

Two things just caught my attention (because I read the Manual!). One Relay is listed as Not Used, and the Manual states the Relays are not removable! I don't have Heated Mirrors. So, that alone gives me 2 more spares built in.

 

Of course the guy making the drawing in the manual could have been doing some hasty copy and paste work.

 

I found them in stock and cheaper at this place, but they have a minimum $35 charge. They all sorts of electrical equipment, but it's a very hard site to navigate and I don't know what half the stuff they sell even is... At any rate, if you need it in hurry, they have them in stock and you can buy some zip ties or something to top off your $35 order requirement. I just ordered from the place TB posted since I'm not in a rush.

PANASONIC EW/AROMAT CM1-D-12V is in stock! | Buy CM1D12V | CM1 D 12V | Onlinecomponents.com

I This site also has a 4 page data sheet on the relay in PDF form. It should have all the data that you guys are looking for. Great work TB, that's saved a lot of people, a lot of money!

 

Thanks PistolWhip! Digi-Key has those Relay PDF too. Very helpful info, along with the manual, should we ever choose to read them.

Good Site find, new to me. I'll be checking them out in the future!

Next week, we shall start learning a bit more, as the MVP Mad Modding Meet commences Friday at Noon!

 

Here is a link where you can buy the correct Relay for the ECU on your Original Version IPDM. This Relay has the Internal Diode, which is makes it different from the others on the IPDM (i.e. Fog Light Relay). Part number has been extensively researched and confirmed. This is the exact same item that Nissan uses.

This may save you from buying an expensive IPDM module. Consider buying this ahead of time, to keep as a spare in the glove box. I'll be buying myself 2 or 3, just too inexpensive not to. Relay is less than $4! Cost Shipped is roughly $7 via USPS. This Relay fits the original design IPDM. May be back ordered sometimes, be patient.

"idhitit2:

Digi-Key - 255-2184-ND (Manufacturer - CM1-D-12V)

So I can just buy this instead of the new IPDM?

 

Yup, it's a hell of a racket Nissan's got going on there isn't it...

 

Time will tell if this is a long term fix, good for a few years, or whatever. But, it seems to be a safe, inexpensive solution for now. We will still try to learn more of what is really on the IPDM, just how "Intelligent" is it? Cause of failure, seems to be the Relay itself, not something else, but proof is in the testing of this solution by multiple users over a long term.

 

***********UPDATE***************
Guys,
This is the wrong relay! I ordered 3 of the CM1-D-12V relays and they have an extra "leg" on them. Hold off on ordering any as I just spent $35 (min order) and they won't work. I doubt I can return these either as they are an electronic part.

 

The correct part # is CM1a-D-12V and I've yet to find them available on the web.

 

Look like the same place has them but only in quantity of 50 and ship date of 5/26/2010
Digi-Key - CM1A-D-12V-ND (Manufacturer - CM1A-D-12V)

Can you break off the extra "leg"?

 

http://pewa.panasonic.com/pcsd/product/auto/pdf_cat/cm.pdf

Is it the difference between Forms A and C shown at page 3 of 5?

Form A is a single pole single throw and Form C is a single pole double throw.

If contact 87a is not used, can't you just cut it off and maybe seal the opening with a little liquid electrical tape or other suitable goop?

 

Yes, Form A is a SPST, Form C is a SPDT. There is also the different styles of PC Board mount vs Plug In Style that we need.

 

Looks like you can buy just 1 from these guys: http://www.onlinecomponents.com/buy/PANASONIC-EW-AROMAT/CM1A-D-12V/

 

Looks like you can buy just 1 from these guys: PANASONIC EW/AROMAT CM1A-D-12V | Buy CM1AD12V | CM1A D 12V | Onlinecomponents.com

Yeah but $35 minimum order.

Not a bad idea to get together with members in your area and order together.

 

Guys, my deepest apologies for any mistake here! Apparently I lost the "a" for a 4 Pin, while finding the "D" for Diode. Read on...

My notes do show the correct part number ACM33211 translating to the CM1a-D-12V and sold at Digi-Key. But only in qty of 50 when I first discovered it back in Dec 2009. Fast forward a couple months and this issue of relays came up online. I don't know how I apparently dropped the "a" from the P/N, to get to the wrong one at Digi-Key, Pin Out wise. I think upon discovering the Diode was a feature we needed, I looked for that in the P/N and overlooked the "a" portion of the number and did not realize it. I did not publish anything in Dec 2009 due to lack of availablitiy, but did order myself 6 relays from Allied Electronics, which I knew lacked the diode, since no "D". I got them just to compare the Pin Out, and they matched with 4 Pins. So, I figured (correctly) I had just bought 6 non ECU relays and would keep them for spares. Couldn't get anything else at the time. Still appears to be correct for the non ECU Relay, right size and pins, no "D" for Diode...........

Right now, I am holding in my hand, that bag of 6 Relays I ordered from Allied Electronics. The bag is labeled:

Qty: 6
Allied Stk#: 788-0430

Product Description: Relay;E-Mech;Automotive;SPST-NO;Cur-Rtg 20/35A (NO/NC);Ctrl-V 12 VDC;Plug-In
Manufacturer Part#: CM1A-12V
Manufacturer Name: PANASONIC ELECTRIC WORKS

The Relay is itself is labeled:

NAiS
91015
1512
JAPAN
CM1a-12V
ACM33201


Now, I am holding the ECU Relay I based my findings on, it is labeled:

NAiS
50208
5 0810
JAPAN
ACM33211


Notice the ACM33201 vs ACM33211? The ACM33201 is the number found on all the non ECU relays on my IPDM (which is a new style original on my 2006) and on others I have seen. It was my belief, and still is that the ones I got are not Diode Protected. There are the right form factor, since the have the "a". The ACM33211 translated to a CM1a-D-12V as we need for the ECU.

So, in agreement with what was posted earlier today, and what I had seen a long time ago, it is a CM1a-D-12V that we need. (Not a CM1-D-12V). Availability is still an issue.

Correct Link: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=CM1a-D-12V

BTW, the Function of the Pins is Fixed. NO vs NC etc... If you could safely remove the extra Pin, it would be functionally correctly. Be careful, and it would work.

 

Correct Link: Digi-Key - CM1A-D-12V-ND (Manufacturer - CM1A-D-12V)

OK the process has started and I need a couple more days before the order is placed. I may have a better deal so I am working that angle first.

Thanks for being patent and Ill get it done...

 

damnit i bought 2

 

I was just trying to avoid having others buy the wrong ones too. I will check with the place I bought them from and see if there's anyway I can return them.

 

I have three on the way. I'm going to try cutting the extra contact off. I figure saw it off with a jeweler's saw, grind the stub down a little with a little dremel bit, seal with some goop, and its good to go. If you look at the OEM relay, you can see where they have the housing set up for the extra contact, so I'm pretty sure the remaining contacts are correctly spaced.

 

Is this the right one?
PANASONIC EW/AROMAT CM1A-D-12V | Buy CM1AD12V | CM1A D 12V | Onlinecomponents.com

 

Yes, that is the right one. As posted above, I just ordered 25 of them, not due in until sometime in May.

 

Relay surgery complete. I cut off 87a with some carbide nippers and ground it down with a dremel bit.

Seems to work fine. Resistance on the contacts goes from infinite (OL) with relay contacts open to .21 (the resistance of the meter test leads) when the coil is energized and the relay contacts close. You can hear the contacts click.

If you want to play around with these, you need to pay attention to the coil polarity because of the diode. The coil contacts are 85 and 86 (you cut 87a off which is between 85 and 86) The pointy end of the diode symbol (cathode) is connected to contact 86, so that is the positive coil terminal and 85 is connected to the anode of the diode, so that is the negative coil terminal.

I have a 12V DC supply, so I used that, but probably a regular little 9V battery would be sufficient to energize the coil.

 

Thank for the info, I just cut my middle leg off with no problems. Now I have the EBay relay with no diode and a neutered one

 

Since PANASONIC EW/AROMAT CM1A-D-12V | Buy CM1AD12V | CM1A D 12V | Onlinecomponents.com has them with only a $35 Minimum, I have placed an order there tonight for a qty of 25 relays. type CM1a-D-12V. I just can't justify buying 50 of these things at Digi-Key. And I have no desire to sell these things online, but may sell a few at just an even dollar amount, once I figure my cost with shipping and packaging. I'd hope to be able to ship a single Relay for around $7 PayPal'd and USPS. With Mods permission of course. Envelopes is something I need to look into. Simple padded from Office Depot should work OK.

I will post up when I receive these, and then we will know for certain, that we have the right thing. They are back ordered 8 weeks from today. I expect to get an update around May 4th, 2010 and hope to receive the Relays shortly thereafter. I will share info on what comes in at that time.

If I can cover my cost to ship these out, for $7 or less, I will do so. Thus fulfilling my intention of realizing a $7 Solution! Thank you for your patience.

 

Since PANASONIC EW/AROMAT CM1A-D-12V | Buy CM1AD12V | CM1A D 12V | Onlinecomponents.com has them with only a $35 Minimum, I have placed an order there tonight for a qty of 25 relays. type CM1a-D-12V. I just can't justify buying 50 of these things at Digi-Key. And I have no desire to sell these things online, but may sell a few at just an even dollar amount, once I figure my cost with shipping and packaging. I'd hope to be able to ship a single Relay for around $7 PayPal'd and USPS. With Mods permission of course. Envelopes is something I need to look into. Simple padded from Office Depot should work OK.

I will post up when I receive these, and then we will know for certain, that we have the right thing. They are back ordered 8 weeks from today. I expect to get an update around May 4th, 2010 and hope to receive the Relays shortly thereafter. I will share info on what comes in at that time.

If I can cover my cost to ship these out, for $7 or less, I will do so. Thus fulfilling my intention of realizing a $7 Solution! Thank you for your patience.

You can do it.

So I guess the one I got from Digi-Key today is the wrong one? If so, put me down for the right one if you do this.